I am planning to buy a cheap eeprom programmer. I have seen a number of them already but still confused.
What are the things we should keep in mind when buying a programmer?
Cost is a big factor for me. I would like to go for one of the cheapest ones.
I would say it doesn't really matter that much. For NES development you'll probably be using mostly older DIP parts anyway, and any programmer that's worth any money at all will support them. 27C and 29F series chips come to mind as possibly the most commonly needed, and nearly any programmer except for very old ones will support those. The only other thing you might possibly consider is the purchasing of a PLCC adapter socket to go with your programmer, but that's not a big deal either.
Another important thing is that it connects to your PC through the USB port. Even if your PC has a parallel port (which is rare nowadays), they don't always work with EPROM programmers.
Then you might as well invest in a powepak, which I doubt will be more expensive than an EPROM programmer + soldering iron + solder + game bit + EPROMs.
Unless you plan to sell quantities of bootlegs, in this case this board is not for you.
Bregalad wrote:
Unless you plan to sell quantities of bootlegs, in this case this board is not for you.
By "this board" did you mean "this circuit board" or "this BBS"? If the latter, then the technical details around selling copies of homebrew that you developed, or homebrew that someone else has developed and distributed under a free software license, are all but identical to those around selling infringing copies of proprietary commercial software.
Sorry I was talking about people that "kindly" ask advice here for making repros of commercial games and in fact they just sell them as authentic games. There has been quite a few of them.
That's why when I see how many people come on this board just to make bootlegs of commercial games I'm really suspicious about it - and I always advertise for the powepak. Honestly since I have mine I never bothered to use any of my old devcards ever again. The only reason I might get them out again is if I need to test something on a true mapper that the powerpak could be emulating incorrectly, or test power-up behavior. (and yes I wasted too much money on my programmer right before the powepak was out but that's another story)
Since all the people asking here wants either to play existing games they don't have a cartridge of, or test their software, the powerpak excels at both.
For a cheap buy decent programmer you are probably looking to spend around $100USD. The PowerPAK costs $135. Basically unless you are a pirate or a software developer making their own cartridges, the PowerPAK is the better buy. There are "cheap" EPROM programmers but they require an older PC with a parallel port and more knowledge to operate them correctly.
IMO, having the programming hardware is a real nice thing if you're into DIY hardware stuff. I know alot of people here are all about the code and don't care so much about doing hardware for the sheer fun of it. Also useful if you do more stuff than NES, IE, Neo Geo development, or tinkering with arcade boards etc.
There are some Chinese programmers, specifically one made by Genius, that go for about $40 to $50 shipped and are USB enabled. If you can make do with software that's partially in Chinese or badly translated into english then it's a great option for hobby use.
Yeah, the Willem burner is the "el cheapo" ROM burner. If you're only burning a couple types of EPROM, and not very often at that, it's worth it. You do have to mess around with jumpers and dipswitches, but that only matters if you're using a bunch of different chips.
Still, I'm sure you could get the convenience of a chinese-made USB burner for basically the same price, like arfink said. Probably a better idea.
Bregalad wrote:
Then you might as well invest in a powepak, which I doubt will be more expensive than an EPROM programmer + soldering iron + solder + game bit + EPROMs.
Unless you plan to sell quantities of bootlegs, in this case this board is not for you.
I am based in Asia and powepak+flashcard+shipping+customs may touch upto $200USD for me. This is why I started thinking about buying eeprom and programmer.
I am not an electronics expert but lately I have generated interest in doing electronic stuff myself. If I opt for buying a programmer and related things it may help me in the non-NES related stuff as well.
I have never operated an eeprom programmer before. This is why I initiated this topic just to make a list of all things I need to buy/prepare alongside a programmer.
Bregalad, you said you spent a lot on programmer stuff before finally getting a power pak . Would you like to elaborate about the problems you faced?
Bregalad wrote:
Sorry I was talking about people that "kindly" ask advice here for making repros of commercial games and in fact they just sell them as authentic games. There has been quite a few of them.
That's why when I see how many people come on this board just to make bootlegs of commercial games I'm really suspicious about it - and I always advertise for the powepak. Honestly since I have mine I never bothered to use any of my old devcards ever again. The only reason I might get them out again is if I need to test something on a true mapper that the powerpak could be emulating incorrectly, or test power-up behavior. (and yes I wasted too much money on my programmer right before the powepak was out but that's another story)
Since all the people asking here wants either to play existing games they don't have a cartridge of, or test their software, the powerpak excels at both.
Producing and selling copies of existing games is not my intention.
The reason I joined nesdev was "pure education". At this point in time my immediate goal is to develop a prototype cart(s) which has removable eeprom so that I can test my personal nes software on that.
other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?
peppers wrote:
other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?
Make repros of rare games, sell them off as originals. See the picture?
peppers wrote:
other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?
It all depends on what they can manage to sell their bootlegs for. Obviously no one is going to try to bootleg Mega Man 2 and make a bunch of money.
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I am based in Asia and powepak+flashcard+shipping+customs may touch upto $200USD for me. This is why I started thinking about buying eeprom and programmer.
Sorry I couldn't know. In fact porting the powerpak to my country plus import taxes also summed up to $200, and that 2 times (for NES and SNES) but if that's too much I understand. Especially if you have a Famicom or Famiclone that would require an 72 -> 60 pin adapter for the Power Pak to work.
Games that would be very likely to be bootleged and sold are anything which was either not released outside of japan, or that was so in small quantities. Games that were unsuccessful the day of their release but that gained popularity with the emulation scenes are also good candidate. On the NES, Earthbound, Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior games could be good candidates for bootlegging.
I know quite a lot of Seiken Densetsu 3 and Chrono Trigger bootlegs were made. Someone can buy a cart of Illusion of Time for about $5 and replace the ROM with one of those games and sell it for more than $100. Not only this is illegal profit, but it's more the lie behind the sell (that the cart is authentic) and the fact people "kindly ask for advice on making their devart" here when in fact they are just doing fake carts.
I'm not saying Nadia is like this - in fact he's likely NOT like this (especially since he explained why the powepak wasn't a solution) - but I was pointing out that now that the powerpak is out there is no purpose in having devcards any longer. I'm sure more than one people came on this forum for that.
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Sorry I couldn't know. In fact porting the powerpak to my country plus import taxes also summed up to $200, and that 2 times (for NES and SNES) but if that's too much I understand. Especially if you have a Famicom or Famiclone that would require an 72 -> 60 pin adapter for the Power Pak to work.
Fortunately I have recently bought an authentic NTSC NES from the US for around 65$. I got 8 games carts with it which are "supposedly original".
Aituon wrote:
peppers wrote:
other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?
Make repros of rare games, sell them off as originals. See the picture?
Yep, and that sort of stuff is only marginally tolerated around here. I know for me personally I'm pretty annoyed when I see creative people make stuff, but ends up with only other people profiting off of it (though there is a respectable amount of craftmanship involved).
I also would hate to see the market get so flooded with bootlegs and prototype "reproductions" (which just a euphemism for bootleg, if it's not official) to the point where no one wants to support homebrew games because they "aren't as good" as the bootlegged stuff. Then considering that a game developer literally sacrifices a sizable part of their life to make a game, after that if they want to release it on cartridge they basically have to compete with people who downloaded a ROM or purchased a prototype cartridge. I don't even care how much was paid for a prototype in the first place, whatever amount of money it is can't even begin to approach the "cost" to the developer.
Bregalad: Yeah there is the PowerPak, but there is a certain appeal to having 1 game per cartridge like the old days. Comparing a shelf of homebrews or reproductions with nice labels, to a Powerpak with a CF card in it, the only time you wouldn't notice any difference is when playing the game (hopefully, heh).
Sorry about the rant, heh, I'm not trying to take over the thread or direct it at anybody. Just rambling.
Memblers wrote:
Aituon wrote:
peppers wrote:
other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?
Make repros of rare games, sell them off as originals. See the picture?
Yep, and that sort of stuff is only marginally tolerated around here. I know for me personally I'm pretty annoyed when I see creative people make stuff, but ends up with only other people profiting off of it (though there is a respectable amount of craftmanship involved).
I also would hate to see the market get so flooded with bootlegs and prototype "reproductions" (which just a euphemism for bootleg, if it's not official) to the point where no one wants to support homebrew games because they "aren't as good" as the bootlegged stuff. Then considering that a game developer literally sacrifices a sizable part of their life to make a game, after that if they want to release it on cartridge they basically have to compete with people who downloaded a ROM or purchased a prototype cartridge. I don't even care how much was paid for a prototype in the first place, whatever amount of money it is can't even begin to approach the "cost" to the developer.
Bregalad: Yeah there is the PowerPak, but there is a certain appeal to having 1 game per cartridge like the old days. Comparing a shelf of homebrews or reproductions with nice labels, to a Powerpak with a CF card in it, the only time you wouldn't notice any difference is when playing the game (hopefully, heh).
Sorry about the rant, heh, I'm not trying to take over the thread or direct it at anybody. Just rambling.
A tad off topic, but I've never been a fan of things like the power pak, just removes that "nostalgic" feel.
personally if I had it to do over I would have bought one of the earthbound repos rather than doin it myself. I can handle the hardware aspect no problem but there cases are far prettier than what I can do.
I justify this by the fact that if Nintendo just made the game I would have bought it but I could not so I see no reason I should be deprived.
The fact that reproductions and game hacks exist for sale would not stop me from buying a homebrew created game. I do not think they are really in direct competition with each other, really there is not a very large market for ether.
Nadia wrote:
Fortunately I have recently bought an authentic NTSC NES from the US for around 65$. I got 8 games carts with it which are "supposedly original".
Nadia, I wrote a little about my experiences with cheap programmers in a different
thread.