First, a message to Kevin Horton: I'll pay a decent amount for a CopyNES, so get selling them ASAP!
Now, a question: Does CopyNES allow to take .NES files from your PC and write them to a cart? It says that it "allows reading and writing of cartridges" on the nesdev homepage, but I read the entire CopyNES site (understood about 80% of it), and it doesn't seem like it supports this. So does it allow to write to carts or not?
Thank you in advance for answering my question.
See the other CopyNES thread, if you haven't already:
http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=312
The short answer is yes, it can write to carts. Replace the ROMs with RAMs, and rewire as appropriate.
The long answer probably seems nuanced, if you're not too familiar with NES cart hardware. But writing to the cart's ROM is the same way that 99% of the various cart mappers are controlled. So .NES files larger than 40kB will need further modifications done to it's cart to be able to load it.
And for games that use CHR-ROM, it may need a pin added to the connector (notice that most carts have missing pins, one is needed for CHR-RAM).
Okay, well I'm pretty new to this. However, I am still willing to fiddle with cartridges for hours on end to make the necessary modifications to get the games working on NES.
So for .nes files 40 kb and under, you don't need to make modifications to the cartridge? But for .nes files larger than 40 kb, you'll need to rewire some things, and possible make other modifications? Is this correct?
For any of the carts, you have to remove the ROMs and replace them with SRAM chips. So even on the 40kB carts there's some rewiring needed too, but it's nothing major. The harder part would removing the original ROMs (unless you have good desoldering tools).
I don't know what most people use for desoldering, but Radio Shack sells a desoldering iron cheap (~$10) and it works killer on IC's, not only does the IC come out in great shape, but it also leaves the via's nice and clean, so if you want to put in a socket, it's pretty painless.
I've never had much luck with other desoldering tools, like desoldering braid (yuck), or the "vacuum pencil" type deal, which works ok for some things.
Desoldering is easy (Assuming you don't need the onboard NES ROM). Just use needle-nose pliers to clip the pins of the NES mask ROM of the PCB. Once you've clipped/cut all the pins, you can pull the rom right off. The pins are still soldered to the board. You can get these out with a simple pump desoldering iron or a needle/pen-point soldering iron. Hope this helps.
-ZoMBie343
okay, I am also new to this. Is it very complicated and dumb to use copynes? or is it just like write chr data here, and right prg data here, or what? and how are you supposed to know what chips to cut and resolder? and one other question. What is that drill bit that you're supposed to use to open NES carts up? I'm sorry, I'm very new to this. Any documentation for newbies on this sort of thing?
A CopyNES does not even require opening up a cartridge at all (provided you know what mapper it uses; otherwise, you need to open it up and look at it to figure out), nor does it require cutting or resoldering ANY chips (except for actually BUILDING the CopyNES, which you probably shouldn't attempt unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing). All you do is plug the cartridge into the CopyNES (which is just a modified frontloading NES), type in a few commands on your PC (which is connected to the CopyNES via parallel port cable), and it dumps the cartridge.
Dumping a cartridge with a new mapper is totally different, though, as it requires writing a plugin (in 6502 assembly) to manipulate the mapper on the cartridge and dump the PRG/CHR data.
Ohh, thanks. I think when one is available, I will get one when I have the chance. Can you erase cart data, and rewrite to the cart after doing so? If so, then that is like the best thing ever made. Okay, not quite, but it still is. Could you erase the data from mario 1, and rewrite to that cart, because it uses mapper 0?
You can only erase/rewrite official carts if they have been hacked to use EEPROMs or flash memory. The ROMs used in official carts are read-only.
Okay, I'm about to kill myself, because I have NO IDEA WHAT ANYONE'S TALKING ABOUT! Where the hell did you guys learn all this? There are like NO basic tutorials about this stuff! I'm really interested in this, but I'm just wondering how you know this stuff. Where's the NES hardware tutorial for newbies? Is there one? If there is please please please please please tell me where it is.
Read, tinker, read read, tinker tinker tinker, clean up after the explosion and try again
Seriously though, read everything linked off the main NESdev site, and everything on Kevin Horton's page (beware, he makes mistakes too, the cpu pinout in nestuff is wrong, as are some of the mapper descriptions). One unfortunate thing: If there is conflicting information, both documents are probably wrong (but trust the newer one over the older one)... A lot of older NES documentation is either difficult to understand, inaccurate or downright wrong (cf. controller 'signatures', famicom not having DMPC, etc...)
If you don't know anything about hardware, you should start off simpler, and work your way up to hardware for the NES. There are lots of tutorials and websites about logic, computer architecture, etc... Build a 555 timer or get a PIC+programmer and make a LED flash, and go from there.
There absolutely does need to be a tutorial written for stuff like this, because there's just been many, many times that I've explained ROMs vs EPROMs vs Flash programming & erasing. I can only do it so many times before going nuts, heheh. I'd write it myself if I wasn't so busy, and actually liked writing docs, haha.
The hardware docs that are around now generally assume one knows exactly what they're doing already. But it's good reference material once you know the context.
Okay, is there any documentation about what all the chips on the motherboard do? like I took apart my NES, and I could only identify a couple things:
PPU
SRAM(VRAM)
SRAM(WRAM)
And I think I may have seen something about the CPU, but I don't know. I don't know what all the other chips are used for, and if I did, I could have a good idea about what everything does, after I read some docs.
Okay, So I'm wondering something. Do you have to cut out chips from a cart, then replace them with new chips to write to them? Yeah, I know you're thinking, "oh yeah, this guy is so dumb" but well, with no documentation for begginers, it's kind of hard to ya know, learn all this stuff. Ya have to learn it some time, it's not just like if you're a programmer, ya just automaticly know this stuff. So could someone just tell me about that?
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, So I'm wondering something. Do you have to cut out chips from a cart, then replace them with new chips to write to them?
Yes. The old chips will be useless, they aren't programmable at all (MaskROMs, they're manufactured with their program).
Ohh, so that's why you by the willem programmer and EPROMS and Flashroms, and all that expensive shit. No, I'm not complaining that it's expensive, if that's what you're thinking. By the way, for a soldering tool, to you guys reccomend that one really easy soldering tool on that commercial? what is it called like cold heat or something like that. I think that's a grand invention. would it be suitable for soldering chips back on and stuff? Any of you guys here use it? and what about for desoldering?
Heheh, yeah it does get expensive.
For a soldering tool, the cheap & effective way is to get a 30W iron like the ones they sell at Radio Shack for ~$10. They take 5 mins to heat up, and the tip will melt down after a while (I used a metal file to get mine back in shape), but it's fine for light use. I'm wanting to get a Hakko 936 as soon as I can afford it though.
That ColdHeat thing looks like an interesting technology, seems like it would be dangerous for chips though. I guess it melts solder by using a high current rather than plain old heat. If accidentally shorting a couple pins would fry the chip, that'd be no good at all.
For desoldering, I guess those little pumps that were mentioned earlier in this thread would work well. You can't use desoldering braid on through-hole stuff.
I have no personal experience with it, but I've been told the ColdHeat tool is very cool, but not good for small circuits like this. The tip is just too big, and the element gets VERY hot.
Okay, so what exactly is that iron thing? like does it come with the solder? or do you have to buy that seperately? and when I get a new giftcard, I need to buy that certain bit that you can open carts with. What size is that? and where can I get one? I've never really used anything with solder, so that's why I may seem so dumb about that subject. And (sorry about all these questions) if I'm going to sometime get a copyNES when they're available, should I just open up one of my SMB1/Duck Hunt carts, and replace those chips?
About the bit you need to open the carts, it's called a Gamebit. The size for NES games is 3.8mm. The other size is 4.5 mm which is mainly for Sega products, but I believe can open others as well (maybe even the N64?). You can generally get them both pretty cheap together. If you're gonna get one, you might as well get the other
Just search eBay with the word 'gamebit,' and you'll find what you need.
As for your other questions, I'm not quite that advanced myself, so I'll let the big dogs help you out.
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, so what exactly is that iron thing? like does it come with the solder? or do you have to buy that seperately? and when I get a new giftcard, I need to buy that certain bit that you can open carts with. What size is that? and where can I get one? I've never really used anything with solder, so that's why I may seem so dumb about that subject. And (sorry about all these questions) if I'm going to sometime get a copyNES when they're available, should I just open up one of my SMB1/Duck Hunt carts, and replace those chips?
What you are asking are general electronics and soldering questions. Nothing wrong with that, we try to be newbie friendly here, but it's not strictly NES related. What you really want to do is to study some circuits first. A semester of college is where most people pick that up, but it's not hard to get on your own. As far as soldering goes I can't think of a better place to pick it up than NASA!
http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/elab/soldering.htm
Oh, that seems easy. how much are soldering Irons? I hope they're not too expensive. Oh my god, a whelder is like 4000 dollars, for a good one at least. But yeah, do they sell those at radio shack? Because if they do, I think I'll have to get one. I live near a radio shack, but I think I heard that that particular radio shack sucks. And should I use a 30W, or 25W like they say on that video in that link. I think before I start doing that with NES hardware, I should probably try removing some chips on basic electronics, and resoldering them back on, just to get good with soldering stuff. For some horrible reason, it looks like it's kind of fun to solder things, haha, that is so lame. Well, any way, how much do you think it would cost, which one should I get, and can I get it at radio shack?
15-20W for delicate soldering, 30-45W for desoldering. Don't get a RadioShack iron, I've been through 5 of them in 5 years, they have the absolute worst heating mechanisms and fattest tips which you'll loose anyway after a good 10 hours.
Somewhere I read about using a heat gun for desoldering chips, since you generally can't get all the solder out of the holes. There are even heat guns made especially for desoldering, but are more expensive. As I understand it, using one involves heating all the solder points of the chip then carefully pulling the chip out of the bottom of the board. It's definitely something to research well and wear safety goggles while doing.
And just in case you missed the warning on the solder you bought, it is extremely toxic! Most solder has lead in it. Lead is particularly nasty because your body cannot expunge it. So every time you are exposed to lead, it accumulates in your body, and there is no way to get it out. This cummulative lead buildup is very bad for you. You can buy lead-free solder, but it's harder to work with. Do not solder anywhere near food, or on your kitchen counter. Work in a well ventilated area and do not breathe the fumes. Wash your hands thouroughly when you are done. People die from lead poisoning due to long term exposure to solder, and even in the short term it can make you very sick.
Oh, is it that much harder to solder with no lead solder? I hope not, because I really don't want to be exposed to toxic meth fumes, haha. And where should I get a soldering Iron if I don't get one from radio shack?
Okay, for EEPROMs, should what kind should I get? Should I get 28C256 for CHR and PRG? And does it need to be the exact size of memory? or can it be like 256K, and you are writing 248K to it? I'm sorry, i seem dumb about this...
Technically lead is not in the smoke, since lead doesn't come close to entering it's gaseous state at soldering temperatures. Generally the smoke is simply a byproduct of the flux if you're using a rosin core solder. It's still smart to use some sort of fume absorber since flux's fumes are potentially carcinogenic.
For desoldering I use a vacuum pencil and wicks because I'm poor. If I had the extra money I'd surely go for a hot air/vacuum rework station.
If you're wondering why it smells like burning pine sap, is because it most likely is,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin
When you burn pine sap, you burn the blood of a thousand little wooden boys. Please, think of Pinocchio and his friends.
On an equally non-serious note, a lot of us wish that
this Rosen were "burning pine sap" as well.
Yeah, I don't really listen to pop music. I get most of my music from
http://www.2a03.org/
and
http://www.scenemusic.net/
Great stuff.
Okay so what EEPROMS would you reccomend for a small demo with 8K of chr data, and 8K of prg data? It would have to be small right? I would just like to know this, and where a good soldering Iron would be.
I'd recommend a 28C64, the only type of 64kx8 parallel EEPROM ;)
Do you know where I might be able to get some EEPROMS like that?
Okay, what does not clean cored soldering wire mean? I really don't get it. I'm thinking of buying 63/37 ratio solder that's .031 inches in diameter, and I was just wondering if it would be okay to get not clean cored wire. Any other reccomendations?
I think it would mean there's flux in the solder's core, and it doesn't need to be cleaned off after soldering (that'd be the brown muck you'll see near a pin after soldering).
Sounds pretty much like what I use. No-clean, rosin core, 60/40, .031". 63/37 has slightly more tin versus lead, should be fine though.
This is the kind right here:
I'm sorry, I have another question. Where's a good tutorial for basics on circuit boards? I hear all this stuff like connect this to GND, and I really don't know what they're talking about. Do you know where a good tutorial is?