Please, help me with a MMC3 Dev Cart

Please, help me with a MMC3 Dev Cart
by on (#33439)
I need help setting up a MMC3 Dev Cart:
I took an Astianax cart. Desoldered the 2 eeproms (27C1000) and then soldered two DIL 32 sockets.
But I can't make the game run. I'm triying to play Captain Tsubasa Vol 2 with no luck. Tried connecting A17 and A18 in the two sockets to high with no success, then to low with no success. What I'm doing wrong?. Its because Astianax has 128 kb prg and 128 kb chr and Captain Tsubasa 2 has 256 kb prg and 128 kb chr?. How can I setup these pins?. All I managed to do where crazy statics pixels on the screen everytime I press reset.
Any help would be much apreciatted n___n.
Re: Please, help me with a MMC3 Dev Cart
by on (#33443)
Whipon wrote:
I took an Astianax cart. Desoldered the 2 eeproms (27C1000)

What do you mean "desoldered the EEPROMs"? The chips inside Nintendo manufactured NES carts are not EEPROMs, They are Mask ROMs, with a pinout unlike regular EPROMs, EEPROMs or FlashROMs. The only types of carts you can get away with simply soldering sockets are NROM and CNROM, the boards used in first generation NES games (limited to 32KB of PRG ROM and 32KB of CHR ROM). Anything else requires a certain level of rewiring.

The main NESDEV page has documents describing the pinouts of the Mask ROMs. Just compare those to the chips you wanna replace them with and reroute any pins that don't match to the correct holes on the board.

On all of the MMC3 boards I checked, even when the games use less than the maximum allowed sizes for each chip, the holes on the board are still correctly connected to the higher address lines on the MMC3 chip, so that's probably not a problem.
27C1000
by on (#33445)
They are 2 chips 32 pins each with the 27C1000 description printed. Is a pirate famicom Astianax cart. Tha mapper is apparently under an epoxy black cover.
I searched alldatasheet.com for 27C1000 and downloaded the data sheet and it says its a CMOS EPROM (one time programmable). I've found these chips in severall of my carts, or UVEPROMS, and 28 pins MASK ROMS also. In this case there is a 27C1000 that is a CMOS EPROM. I compared the pinout with my AM29F040B and the only difference is that pin 1 in the 27C1000 is the VPP and is A18 in the AM29F040B. Also pin 30 is described as Not Connected and in the AM29F040B is A17.
Maybe I must try in a better cart?. I have an 8 Eyes cart with two 27C010 UV EPROMS and it has a MMC3 mapper wich is a 40 pins dip chip and also has a 14 pin LS32.
Thanks.
Whipon.
Failure again u_u
by on (#33446)
I desoldered the two 27C010 from the 8 Eyes cart. Then compared the pinouts with my 29F040 and the differences are the same than with the 27C1000. (pin 1 and pin and pin 30). Both pins are connected to +5V so I soldered the 32 pin sockets in the same way.
I tried running Alien 3, Little Samson and River City Ramson with no luck. If I put the 8 Eyes 27C010 them work fine in both carts. But when I put my eeproms them doesn't work.
I'm separating the PRG and the CHR through an hex editor. For example River City Ramson (128 kb PRG and 128 kb CHR). First I delete the first 16 bytes, then I select a block from 0 through the hex offset 20000. I save that to RCR PRG.bin. Then I save the remaining info as RCR CHR.bin. Then I program them to both of my 29F040. I can't understand what I'm doing wrong.
Any suggestions?.

by on (#33447)
Ah, so it's a pirate... well, I really can't help you then. I can tell you that you shouldn't trust pirate carts when making devcarts though, because the mapper may not function like the original.
U_U
by on (#33449)
Thanks again for the info.
I don't own any original, surelly all my carts are pirate ones. I'm surprised, because both carts work well with the UVEPROMS of the 8 Eyes cart. So it can be coincidence that two MMC3 games had the same buggie mapper hacked in them. (because in the Astianax cart it has the mapper covered with epoxy, and in the 8 Eyes the mapper is a 40 pin dip).
I've found this web with some EEPROM modifications:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/nesmod.htm
Maybe I can apply these pinouts to make the cart work?.
The last try...
by on (#33455)
Well, I flashed 8 Eyes to the 29F040s. The game works, but with corrupted graphics. I forgot to tell you that the same happens with the original 27C010 that were in the cart. When I insert them I get corrupted graphics in both carts. So it seems the mapper is corrupted or this thing has a very rare chip.
Anyway, It was fun. Now I'll need to look for a original cart with mmc3 mapper. Do you know where I can find a 72 to 60 pin converter to play NES games on a Famicom?. I searched ebay but couldn't find one.

by on (#33458)
I got my hands on one when I bought a Handi-Fami 8, but I can't seem to find anymore of those on eBay. If you can't find a converter, you could try asking around various gaming forums to see if anyone has one of those fami-clones, and if they would trade/sell it to you. I'd rather not part with mine in case I need it for something in the future, but maybe that will help you out some. Good luck!
=P
by on (#33459)
I couldn't wait anymore. I searched in the local e-shops here in Argentina and found and original NES frontloader, two adaptors, one to play famicom games on a NES and another to add PAL/NTSC compatibility, and a original Super Mario Bross 3 cartridge. I bought all of these items for U$S 51 and must go for them tomorrow.
The story is very different with an original NES cart, right?. I mean, Can I do the devcart with it without the problems I found with the pirate Famicom carts?.

by on (#33462)
There's still a bit of rewiring to add *EPROM sockets to an NES cart board, but at least this rewiring is a known quantity.

SMB3's board uses CHR ROM, so you'll need a different board if you also want to develop with CHR RAM.
Its ok ;)
by on (#33463)
At the moment, I only need a board with CHR ROM. SMB3 uses mask roms?. I've successfully rewired an unrom cart with a 28 pin Mask ROM in it, it wasn't difficult.

by on (#33480)
CONNECT 29F040 flash /WE and /OE pins together!!! :)
Ground?
by on (#33482)
So, you mean connect the two pins to ground or to +5V?. I tested some games with the Famicom to NES converter and they worked well. Actually I'm triying to fix my UNROM devcart, because the height of the sockets doesnt let the cart to enter my frontloader.
Tonight I opened the case of this baby and was filled with dirt and insect parts. What a mess. Also, the two RF shields and some parts of the motherboard was filled with a slippery substance, like oil. I had a lot of work.
I removed the pin 4 of the lockout chip accidentally, but I readed its not absolute necessary to ground it. I can play Yoshi PAL without the adaptor!. Also I maked the blue led mod.
Anyone know of a good shop who will ship to Argentina a new Cartdridge Connector?. I'm geting lots of green screens of death u_u.

by on (#33525)
No need to ground that sucker. It already does internally.
Re: Ground?
by on (#33527)
Whipon wrote:
Anyone know of a good shop who will ship to Argentina a new Cartdridge Connector?. I'm geting lots of green screens of death u_u.

A while ago, you could find lots of them on eBay. I got one that was shipped to Brazil with no problems, it should be the same with Argentina. These are not exactly like the original connectors though, you even have to leave a few screws out for it to fit. You no longer need to push the cart down (don't even know if it'd be possible), just inserting the cart works 95% of the time, if the cart is in good condition.
Re: Ground?
by on (#33529)
tokumaru wrote:
Whipon wrote:
Anyone know of a good shop who will ship to Argentina a new Cartdridge Connector?. I'm geting lots of green screens of death u_u.

A while ago, you could find lots of them on eBay. I got one that was shipped to Brazil with no problems, it should be the same with Argentina. These are not exactly like the original connectors though, you even have to leave a few screws out for it to fit. You no longer need to push the cart down (don't even know if it'd be possible), just inserting the cart works 95% of the time, if the cart is in good condition.


Yes try typing "72 pin Nes" on Ebay...

I got a new gold one from "videogameswholesale" for 10 eur (18-20$ approx shiping to europe included).
Thanks ^^
by on (#33544)
Thanks for the WE tip ;).
Well, I'll search ebay for a cartdridge connector then, thank you. Also I'm needing the special screwdriver to open nes carts. I tried the plastic rod method (melt it a bit with a lighter, apply it to the screws and then wait it to cool) but I couldn't do it that way.
Re: Thanks ^^
by on (#33548)
Whipon wrote:
I tried the plastic rod method (melt it a bit with a lighter, apply it to the screws and then wait it to cool) but I couldn't do it that way.

I just heat the screws with the soldering iron while slightly forcing the cart open. If you do it carefully, the case doesn't get damaged. I never close them back, but I heard it is possible as long as you use larger screws than the originals.
Re: Thanks ^^
by on (#33551)
Whipon wrote:
Thanks for the WE tip ;).
Well, I'll search ebay for a cartdridge connector then, thank you. Also I'm needing the special screwdriver to open nes carts. I tried the plastic rod method (melt it a bit with a lighter, apply it to the screws and then wait it to cool) but I couldn't do it that way.


Get TORX screw and mod it into NES cart screwdriver 8)
I have it. Works excelent.

like this, but get longest: (use file and saw it a little)
Image
Great!
by on (#33554)
I've found this one:
Extra long URL
It works great!.
Failure again T_T
by on (#33558)
Well, I grab my Super Mario Bross 3 cart, desoldered the PRG and CHR ROM and rewired it like this: (I'm using AM29F040B EEPROMS)

PRG:
Image

CHR:
Image

I flashed to the EEPROMs Captain Tsubasa Vol 2, but It doesn't work. I'll really appreciatte If someone can lend me a hand. If not I just destroyed an original SMB3 cart for nothing T_T.

by on (#33567)
connect both prg/chr WE to CE (or if doesnt work - to OE), some flash memory need that. NEVER leave WE NC... Try also connect PRG OE to CE, not to GND.
Thank you very much ;)
by on (#33571)
I'll try that and then I'll post the results here.
Thanks a lot ;).
Whipon.
Not working yet u.u
by on (#33575)
I tried as you suggested, but It didn't worked. I allways get a green screen of death. I also tried changing the eeproms, flashing Super Mario Bross 3, but I allways get the damn green screen. Maybe I fried the cart?. Or Its impossible to make a devcart with MMC3?. I've tried with two pirate famicom ones and with this original Super Mario Bross 3 with no luck. It was a lot easier with UNROM. Sadly, at Retrozone, they only sell MMC1 boards. If they had MMC3 boards I'll buy one for sure. I don't know what to do, the guy who sold me SMB3 has very high prices. Maybe the next month I'll buy another copy of SMB3 just to replace the one I destroyed T_T.

by on (#33688)
Did you remove 16-byte header from NES files?? Or you just simply split NES file into a PRG and CHR parts?? :)

If not, maybe some tracks on cart been cut when you remove mask ROM's. :/

EDIT:.... Maybe i know whats wrong:

Did you write directly 128 or 256KB files into 512KB FLASH??? If yes, try join smallest BIN file into one 512KB. Some eprom/wlash programmers need that!! (like old WILLEM) :)

Example: You have 128KB PRG bin file. Use hexeditor, mark all 128KB data and copy it, then paste it four times (in END of file) to make one 512KB file. NOW write it to 29F040. (256KB files join twice)

If you have Windows/Total Commander: Copy your PRG or CHR 128KB file, rename it as (example) DATA.001 and make another copies as DATA.002, DATA.003 and DATA.004. Doubleclick at DATA.001 and TCommander automatically make one 512KB file named DATA.OUT - rename it as PRGROM.BIN and NOW write to 29F040.

256KB files simillar - make two "DATA.001 and DATA.002 files and dclick .001 file to make 512KB "DATA.OUT".
:)
by on (#33689)
Yes, I flash the carts like that, allways remove the header, then separate the prg and the chr and copy and paste them until each one is a 512 kb bin. Maybe I cut a track when I removed the roms, I double checked that, but I can't think of any other issue. Thank you very much for your help.
I almost managed to do it n_n (u_u)
by on (#37305)
Hello to everyone ;).
Sorry to revive this old post :P.
Well, I bought another SMB3 NES cart. This time I used a desoldering station to desolder the roms, so there's not any broken path. Also I bend up the pins as recomended in the guides. This time I'm using a AM29F040 to the PRG and a AM29F010 to the CHR. I'm flashing to them SMB3.
The only problem is that the graphics are all scrambled. I have sound and If I press start I can go to the first world map with sound in it too. But I can't progress any further, because the game freezes if I try to enter a level.
If I have sound, then the PRG is not the problem right?. I tried 2 different eproms for both the PRG and the CHR, and tried also with the PRG 0 and the PRG 1 versions of the rom. What can be wrong?. I checked the pcb several times with my multimeter. Everything seems to be ok. Now I have a real usb programmer, and it checked and verify the flash eproms correctly everytime.
I'll really appreciatte any advice, because this time I managed to get sound and scrambled graphics, but thats better than a green screen of death right?. I'm closer to finish the project now, just need a little help to figure out what can be causing this graphic issue.
Thanks in advance.
Whipon.

by on (#37320)
If graphics are scrabled probably your cart just does bad connexion with the NES this is very, very very common. In fact when I turn my NES on more often than not graphics are scrabled and I should reset a few times to fix them.

It that's not the problem you should double check how you rewired the CHRROM. Also sometimes flash ROMs have different pinout than EPROMs, and the doccumentation widely available is for EPROMs. But I guess this only apply for 28-pin chips (below 64kb) so you should be good with your 32-pin chips. Make sure that the /WE pin of flash ROM is tied to VCC.
I'll try...
by on (#37330)
Thanks a lot for your help ;).
Yes, I know the guides are based on UVEPROMS, but I use the datasheets of my flash eproms to locate the correct pins. Also aso I'm soldering the WE pin to +5V.
I cleaned bot sides of the cartdridge connector with isoprophilic alcohol with the same results. I'll desolder the CHR socket and I'll try again. I'll let you know If I manage to do it. My last try a few months ago failed because I was soldering the sockets in the back side only, and then, the traces in the front side where not connected to the sockets. Now I'm keeping a space of 1 mm between the socket and the pcb. Then I make sure that the tin is in both sides of the pcb so the traces in both sides are connected.
Wish me luck ;).
Whipon.

by on (#37335)
Quote:
I cleaned bot sides of the cartdridge connector with isoprophilic alcohol with the same results. I'll desolder the CHR socket and I'll try again. I'll let you know If I manage to do it. My last try a few months ago failed because I was soldering the sockets in the back side only, and then, the traces in the front side where not connected to the sockets.

Well that's weird normally the solder leaks into both sides of PCB (assuming you place enough of it).
You probably just got a wire wrong by one pin or something like that. It's really easy to do a small mistake like that (I've done it in almost every devcart I ever made) and you can fix them without much troble (often adding a new wire because you cut a track you shouldn't have to or something like that).

by on (#37350)
Also there should be "trough holes" in place if it needs both sides...
Kawabonga!!!
by on (#37359)
Well, I desoldered the two sockets, then cleaned the remaining solder in both sides, then cleaned the pcb with isoprophilic alcohol, soldered the sockets again, soldered the cables to rewire A18, A17, A16, etc, and then tried it again.
Now the game worked but it showed messed graphics. Then I opened the cart again, and I discovered a short circuit between A18 and A16 in the CHR socket. Fixed that and now its working perfectly. Time to burn some games baby n_______n.
Thank you very much to all of you for your support. I'd never manage to do it without your invaluable help.
C U in the next devcart ;).
Whipon.

by on (#37373)
Jeroen wrote:
Also there should be "trough holes" in place if it needs both sides...


I think I didn't explain it well. Lets see, had you seen those holes where the track its in the front side and in the back there's not any track?. Well, in the SMB3 TSROM PCB, there's lots of holes like that. I was soldering only in the back side, and the tracks in the front in these holes where not connected to the socket pins. Not to mention my big error when I soldered the cables to rewire some of its pins: I was committing the same mistake, soldering the cable in the back side of the pcb only, so these cables were useless, because the track was in the front side.
Anyway, now I have a TSROM devcart, and there's lots of games that use that board. For example Kunio Kun no Nekketsu Soccer League. The american remake Nintendo World Cup, is a piece of shit compared to the original. I tried first with SMB3 and it worked, so I tried with KKNNSL and it worked too. I'm very happy with this new toy, and all this thanks to the help of all of you and this great website.
Thanks a lot to everyone for your help.
C U n.n
Whipon.