Learning more about harmony

Learning more about harmony
by mbrenaman on 2011-07-04 (#81097)

Hello everyone. I have two questions that are somewhat related to NES music, and I was looking for advice from any musicians that frequent the boards.

Recently I wanted to improve my composition skills (for writing music for my game projects) by learning more about harmonizing melodies and maybe a little about voice leading. Background wise, I'm somewhat familiar with the basics of harmony (chords, cadences, modulation, etc.) and I know a good bit about other aspects of music theory. So, I decided to take a look a two books I came across. The first one was "Harmonic Practice in Tonal Music" First Edition by Robert Gauldin, and while it provided quite a bit of information I found interesting, the whole thing seems to really just teach four-part writing in the end. I assumed then that I should learn four-part writing, and downloaded a copy of "Harmony: It's Theory and Practice" by Ebenezer Prout. Well, after I got through the first four chapters, accumulated a little over a dozen pages of notes about the rules of four-part writing, spent a total of three and half hours working on exercises that produced a whopping twelve measures, I began to question my need to learn four-part writing. It seems that it might not even be possible to self-teach such a subject without a machine (I mean teacher) to ensure that you don't break any rules. So, my questions to the musicians here are:

Can you recommend any good books that teach how to harmonize melodies and a little about voice leading without the horrifying straitjacket of four-part writing?

Do you think four-part writing would be something that would be beneficial in a practical sense to someone writing music for the NES? (Yes, I know the NES normally only has three voices, but the rules for the most part could still be applied.)

Thank you for your time, and I'm very sorry for the ranting. Hopefully this isn't too off topic from what is intended to be posted here.

by Bregalad on 2011-07-05 (#81119)

I don't know but it would most certainly help to get used to harmony thing with 4 parts even if you plan to only use 3.
(You could always use the FDS channel for one more part if you're only releasing NSFs.)

I haven't composed any music for a long while (hell I should do that again how I'll forget how to do it) but I'm one of those guys for who less voices is a good thing. I've never managed to compose for many voices personally, but for some other people, it might be the other way around where the more voice there is the better.

by mbrenaman on 2011-07-06 (#81190)

I suppose, but I wanted to learn more about general tendencies and a set of general, practical guidelines. Four-part writing seems to be more like a learning how to solve musical crossword puzzles than a practical set of guidelines. You sit down with your puzzle, solve it according to a theorist's guidelines, listen to it, and by virtue of the many, many rules, it doesn't sound bad. I honestly can't imagine any one composing in the way four-part harmony puzzles are solved.

by tepples on 2011-07-06 (#81192)

mbrenaman wrote:
I honestly can't imagine any one composing in the way four-part harmony puzzles are solved.

Unless you're trying for fully algorithmic composition. You have a computer spit out a melody according to a small set of rules, and then you implement the "crossword puzzle" harmony rules on a computer.

by mbrenaman on 2011-07-06 (#81194)

Quote:
Unless you're trying for fully algorithmic composition. You have a computer spit out a melody according to a small set of rules, and then you implement the "crossword puzzle" harmony rules on a computer.

Kinda like this.

Re: Learning more about harmony
by thefox on 2011-07-06 (#81209)

mbrenaman wrote:
Thank you for your time, and I'm very sorry for the ranting. Hopefully this isn't too off topic from what is intended to be posted here.

It's not off-topic by any means, but in all honesty you'll probably get more and better answers from a chiptune related forum, such as chipmusic.org.

When it comes to composing, I'm more of a "feel" person, although I don't consider myself much of a musician. I like to learn by breaking down other peoples' songs (finding out melodies, chord progressions, rhythm patterns, etc) and analyzing them, hoping that I'll be able to absorb a thing or two in my musical toolbox to use "unconsciously" later.

by Shiru on 2011-07-06 (#81210)

I'd say, if you need answers to complex questions about harmony etc, you better ask on a composers forum. Chiptune musicians often don't know music theory well, or at all.

by mbrenaman on 2011-07-06 (#81213)

Quote:
I'm more of a "feel" person

and
Quote:
Chiptune musicians often don't know music theory well, or at all.

Don't detract from the fact that there is a lot of chip-tune music I like, heck, it might even explain it .

After reading over and taking notes on the various rules of four-part writing, I think I know the gist of which rules are the most important. Of course, this is bearing in mind that four-part writing rules are meant for creating independent voices (lines) that move together through a harmonic progression with a smooth sound. Honestly though, for anyone who is not writing for a choir, I think being aware of the primary rules are enough. I also think people wanting to learn more about harmonizing melodies should invest more time in developing good aural skills then applying algorithms.

Quote:
I like to learn by breaking down other peoples' songs (finding out melodies, chord progressions, rhythm patterns, etc) and analyzing them, hoping that I'll be able to absorb a thing or two in my musical toolbox to use "unconsciously" later.

From what I gather, this seems to be the best way to learn about music. Awareness of theory helps, but text books can only go so far.

Edit: If anything, this thread helped me put things in perspective. Thanks guys.

by Memblers on 2011-07-06 (#81220)

I haven't had any formal training, really. I just sorta try to keep in mind how 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, etc. sounds on top of the base note. And a lot of experimenting until I get something that either sounds surprisingly cool, or sounds like how I wanted it to sound, heheh.

Maybe listening to some Iron Maiden would help, heheh. Seriously, lots of tabs and stuff are available, for analyzing songs that you know, if that helps any.

by Dwedit on 2011-07-06 (#81221)

mbrenaman wrote:
Quote:
Unless you're trying for fully algorithmic composition. You have a computer spit out a melody according to a small set of rules, and then you implement the "crossword puzzle" harmony rules on a computer.

Kinda like this.

That program looks amazing.
The only bad thing is that I Googled the product name to see if anyone was discussing it, and got mostly W***z links. Damn pirates.

by bucky o'hare on 2011-07-16 (#81587)

I don't have the most advanced understanding of music theory, but having taken a couple courses and having some experience with 4-part writing, my advise would be to pay more attention to the 'rules' and suggestions regarding chord progressions.

A sure way to make sure your song "works" is to give it a solid chord progression. If you break rules of 4 part writing, like including parallel 5ths, etc, but you do it all within a framework of logical progressions (I IV V I, I ii V, etc), you should still have yourself some competent music. And then you can let your ear worry about the rest and not overly concern yourself with the myriad rules that come with 4-part writing.

I think this particularly applies to the NES, because you often have to imply chords or kind of side-step how they work in the traditional sense. So my personal suggestion would be to pay closer attention to chord progressions and perhaps 2-voice counterpoint.

by mbrenaman on 2011-07-17 (#81612)

Thanks bucky, that seems like sound advice. The one cool thing about the older text that I have is that it has a section in the back that covers three part writing, and a lot of that can be applied to voicing chords for the NES.

Quote:
So my personal suggestion would be to pay closer attention to chord progressions and perhaps 2-voice counterpoint.

I've actually played around with 2-voice counterpoint (more as a fun diversion than anything) and I saw some of the more important rules crop up in the texts I have on four part writing. I kinda began to think of four part writing as a sorta 4-voice counterpoint.

In any event, thank you very much for your advice.

by GradualGames on 2011-08-14 (#82793)

Do you play keyboards at all? I've been playing piano for a number of years now (about 11), and most of that time improvising. It's a whole secondary hobby to video games/nes dev. Anyway, it might be the best way to learn voice leading cause you focus on the sound of your music rather than pedantic rules.

I strove for years to understand the reasons "why" behind voice leading and all those rules, and I believe I understand them pretty well. The ridiculously simple truth behind common practice era harmony is that composers/musicians back then were really fascinated with the sound of thirds and their inversions (so major and minor thirds, major and minor sixths, tenths, etc.). They felt they sounded "sweetest" of all the intervals. Use of dissonances and parallels are treated with care to bring out the sweetness of thirds (and as a consequence, the fullness of triads) as much as possible. That, for me, is the root cause of all those rules. I am not sure I understand why that isn't mentioned in music theory books, because once you realize it it becomes quite clear.

Video game music from what I've heard follows those rules rather loosely. You'll hear lots of parallel fifths for example. There are really no rules in music. If your premise is: "I'm an enlightenment gentleman and I believe in absolute truth even in music and I want to empahsize the sweetness of thirds at all costs!" then yes, follow those rules. If not, you can do anything you want.

*edit* not to mention, video game music especially in the 8 bit era almost formed an entire language all its own, which probably violates all the traditional rules all over the place. One thing music theory books fail at miserably is treatment of rhythm. Video game music in many cases has really creative use of rhythm, more influenced by jazz or rock music than it is by classical.

Re: Learning more about harmony
by zzo38 on 2011-08-17 (#82875)

I understand four-part SATB music theory. You can use these rules, and then you can add non-chord notes, and adjust things (with or without the rules) and then figure out if it is good or not. If it is no good then change it

by mbrenaman on 2011-08-18 (#82886)

Quote:
Do you play keyboards at all?

Sadly no. I'm a guitar player (acoustic fingerstyle). I just never had the spare time or money to invest in acquiring and learning to play any type of keyboard instrument.

Quote:
I strove for years to understand the reasons "why" behind voice leading and all those rules, and I believe I understand them pretty well...

Thanks for the generalization. Lately I've been sticking with analyzing music that I like that I can also get sheet music for. I'll have to keep what you said in mind though the next time I go through my harmony books.

Quote:
There are really no rules in music.

Seems to be about correct. Rules seem to be genre specific, and even then they seem to not always be written in stone. I really just wanted to learn more about harmonic tendencies in different genres of music and how I could use that information to harmonize melodies. I had thought the harmony books I have would help with that, but I seem to be getting more mileage out of studying the works of others.

by Roth on 2011-08-31 (#83307)

Gradualore wrote:
I strove for years to understand the reasons "why" behind voice leading and all those rules, and I believe I understand them pretty well. The ridiculously simple truth behind common practice era harmony is that composers/musicians back then were really fascinated with the sound of thirds and their inversions (so major and minor thirds, major and minor sixths, tenths, etc.). They felt they sounded "sweetest" of all the intervals. Use of dissonances and parallels are treated with care to bring out the sweetness of thirds (and as a consequence, the fullness of triads) as much as possible. That, for me, is the root cause of all those rules. I am not sure I understand why that isn't mentioned in music theory books, because once you realize it it becomes quite clear.

No! Just play what feels right and matches what is on-screen! Not many people will mention this, but that is how you should approach it. In your music engine, play music that fits the mood of the game. I don't care if _you_ think it's boring when you listen back.... it's probably the right thing to play! Just write what seems right for the game, otherwise, the game loses stability.

Get some advice from a couple of friends to confirm it if you need to. Just go with the gut instinct you have of what the music should play.