Hey. I just wondered if I can make a iNES/UNIF mapper emulator support c64 SID chip emulation as extra sound.
But there's one reason for doing this: After that, I will (or might, if I have the time) to try to make a hardware NES project using ''Quazar SID interface'', ''HardSID'' or something like that. It is to benefit making and listening music and/or port games to C64 and back.
What do you think, Should I do this addition to the family of extra famicom sound? Vote Here
Sounds great. The only difficulty on the hardware side is the fact that the original SID chip had analog components. This creates unique distortion effects that can't quite seem to be matched digitally. That's part of what makes the SID so pleasing on original hardware.
Another issue is that SID chips may be hard to find. They aren't made anymore, and it's probably cost-prohibitive to buy Commodore 64 computers just to desolder the SID chips and put them in cartridges.
tepples wrote:
Another issue is that SID chips may be hard to find. They aren't made anymore, and it's probably cost-prohibitive to buy Commodore 64 computers just to desolder the SID chips and put them in cartridges.
Actually, That is not really true, I can buy the required HardSID components and hack/rewire the NES (or a ***SMB1 Cartridge) to use it for extended sound. Just needs *two audio plugs/red jacks. **One of which go from extended audio to the HardSID, then another jack to the TV
Notes to Self:
*** = Adding the Great Giana Sisters music to SMB1 will be possible as there is a SID disassembler at the goattracker homepage (Goattracker is a good SID tracker!)
** = 1 jack if mono, 2 red jacks if stereo. Recommended amount is 2
* = 2 jacks if mono, 4 red jacks if stereo. Recommended amount is 4
EDIT: Typo fixed
Hamtaro126 wrote:
I can buy the required HardSID components
My point is that as C64 computers get "used up" for their SID chips, this will become more and more expensive. Or when did they restart production on SID chips?
tepples wrote:
My point is that as C64 computers get "used up" for their SID chips, this will become more and more expensive. Or when did they restart production on SID chips?
Appearently, Wikipedia says HardSID and/or some (but not all) similar SID-related (non-C64) hardware used a replica or a reforge (as in NES-on-a-Chip style, but is not a on-a-Chip at all, just simply remade), That may or may not be true. It can be the truth though,
It definitely makes no sense to make an emulator for something that doesn't have hardware for, and it doesn't really make sense to destroy C64 computers to take off their SID chip.
Also, even if it lacks filters and have less duty cycles available and less bits for frequency controls, the NES sound chip has one more channel and more flexible volume control. So the gain for doing this is so-so.
What would we do with the SID on NES, though? Dump .sid files to carts? Wouldn't that nessecitate emulating the C64 processor as well as the sound chip? I guess the GT dissasembler would help with this? If I could run progs from Goattracker on NES, that would be cool, but midiBox sid already can do this.
There are alot of good SID hardware applications out there (midiBox for instance) already. So I don't know how useful an NesSID application would be to musicians.
Also, a SID-like substitute, if real chips do get hard to find:
http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/
Bregalad wrote:
It definitely makes no sense to make an emulator for something that doesn't have hardware for, and it doesn't really make sense to destroy C64 computers to take off their SID chip.
The procedure doesn't render the C64 unworkable. It is nested in a socket, on the motherboard. You can always put in another SID.
yatagarasu wrote:
You can always put in another SID.
If they're still manufactured. I was just worried that accuracy of the reproduction chips might have fallen to NOAC levels.
I was going to make some sort of joke regarding Hamtaro's commitment to his projects, but that would not be mature at all, so I gave up.
So yeah, if he does indeed decide to pursuit this, I wish him luck, even though I don't see the point. What the heck, most people around the world don't see a point in our hobby (messing with old video games) anyway...
yatagarasu wrote:
Wouldn't that nessecitate emulating the C64 processor as well as the sound chip?
The Commodore 64 also uses a 6502 processor. So there would be no need for emulation. But you don't necessarily need a 6502 to interface with the SID. What does need to be considered is that the SID was only designed to operate at 1MHz. Any faster and you'll fry the chip. At least as far as real, physical SID chips are concerned.
tepples wrote:
I was just worried that accuracy of the reproduction chips might have fallen to NOAC levels.
Yeah, they can't quite reproduce the filters of the original 6581. The later revision SIDs are another story, but they're quite honestly inferior. They wouldn't really add anything to the NES's sound capabilities that hasn't already been done on the VRC6 or Namcot 106, for example. If there's going to be a clone that replaces the SID, it's going to have to be able to replace the original analog filters and distortion. Just my thoughts.
My Squeedo synth can sound somewhat SID-like without any trouble, no way it could sound like original SID filters though. I wasn't gonna bring it up until I saw that SwinSid, seems like the same concept except he used an AVR and I used a PIC18.
Sometime later I can get that working, and supported with MCK at least.
Ok, It sounds like Memblers is doing something similar to the SID (in a way that it sounds),
Because of that. I will not bother with the upcoming project and to not do it at all, I am letting Memblers do the Squeedo project instead. As It sounds more possible to program and as he said, sounds similar to a SID. and does not require the extra crap to make the mess that I would have made.
In other words...
*Project Abandoned*
As a note, Please end the voting part now.
BTW: The project was not a joke, just was in concept stages until it was abandoned by me,
tokumaru wrote:
I was going to make some sort of joke regarding Hamtaro's commitment to his projects, but that would not be mature at all, so I gave up.
I guess now you can make it. Sorry, this one was too easy.
Memblers wrote:
My Squeedo synth can sound somewhat SID-like without any trouble, no way it could sound like original SID filters though. I wasn't gonna bring it up until I saw that SwinSid, seems like the same concept except he used an AVR and I used a PIC18.
Sometime later I can get that working, and supported with MCK at least.
ohh yeah i had forgotten that this even existed
- Mr. Hamtaro126, how many of your projects did you finish? Have you some links for pics or even downloads as proof?
Fx3 wrote:
- Mr. Hamtaro126, how many of your projects did you finish? Have you some links for pics or even downloads as proof?
I have made a Hack of SMB1 using Mapper 2 (UxROM), But I am afraid that the source code was lost in a harddrive crash, But Binaries are in a patch format provided you have a clean PRG0 rom:
http://acmlm.kafuka.org/uploader/get.php?id=160
It works on my computer. Requires an IPS patcher, Note that The Titlescreen Graphics will not be seen.
Squeedo will live again. I'm still working on Garage Cart #2, but definitely I'm ready to get finished with that, and get that synth going for a change of pace (and some music). It worked before but had a really annoying bug, but on
another thread recently, Banshaku found the same bug, which was simply an issue with MCK.
Rushjet wrote:
ohh yeah i had forgotten that this even existed
Heheh, maybe you were blocking out the painful memories of the glitched-out conversion of your Namco106 song:
http://www.parodius.com/~memblers/nes/squeedo/samps/008.mp3. Though that's pretty much the only thing like a full song I'd ever had it play.