- Topic. Just wondering... his help is always very appreciated.
Well, his last post was in November. His site disappeared about a month ago, but I see it is up now. Who knows...
In his last post he looked to have decided that he would no longer be posting here.
http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewtopi ... ght=#70669
If anyone knows how to reach him, please let him know he is missed and his contributions to the NES homebrew scene are deeply appreciated.
Al
http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewtopi ... ght=#70669
If anyone knows how to reach him, please let him know he is missed and his contributions to the NES homebrew scene are deeply appreciated.
Al
He's probably not coming back. When someone leaves at the height of a "you guys need to get your act together" moment, that memory stays with them.
That whole period of time was just a mess for this entire community, and even if we've sorted it out, the damage was probably already done.
That whole period of time was just a mess for this entire community, and even if we've sorted it out, the damage was probably already done.
I can't believe. Really, I was out of this discussion and now it sounds like a big blast. All that things make the nesdev/nesemdev pretty stuck... or (why not) dead. The only way to fake the survive of it is to idolize FCEU and Nestopia (with respect here).
Just notice the lack of interesting or relevant /NES-related subjects across recent posts.
Just notice the lack of interesting or relevant /NES-related subjects across recent posts.
That's a shame if he's gone. He was very helpful to me particularly when I was starting out on making my first NES emulator.
Drag wrote:
That whole period of time was just a mess for this entire community, and even if we've sorted it out, the damage was probably already done.
I'm not sure how long you've been part of the "community", but this sort of situation has recurred many times over (I'm talking a good 15-20), whether it be here on the boards or on IRC or otherwise. It's nothing new, and its continual recurrence is one of the reasons why key people have removed themselves from involvement. And yes, it's very specific to the nesdev community -- for a decade I've been trying to figure out why and still have no concrete explanation. The best I have: the NES/FC seems to be an "Internet fuckwad magnet". And for the record, I don't read/like Penny Arcade.
As for blargg: he's doing fine (read: he's alive and well). I got a very honest and sincere explanation for his departure, but I do not feel comfortable violating his right to privacy by posting the contents of his Email here; that'd be disrespectful towards him, and I have no such disrespect.
The simple version: he won't be returning here unless there are changes.
There is a post in the moderators forum discussing the crux of the problem, but so far none of the other mods have commented.
I must admit I'm completely lost here. I wasn't even aware we had a big problem... I hope you mods can explain the situation to the rest of us sometime soon.
koitsu wrote:
Drag wrote:
That whole period of time was just a mess for this entire community, and even if we've sorted it out, the damage was probably already done.
I'm not sure how long you've been part of the "community", but this sort of situation has recurred many times over (I'm talking a good 15-20), whether it be here on the boards or on IRC or otherwise. It's nothing new, and its continual recurrence is one of the reasons why key people have removed themselves from involvement. And yes, it's very specific to the nesdev community -- for a decade I've been trying to figure out why and still have no concrete explanation. The best I have: the NES/FC seems to be an "Internet fuckwad magnet". And for the record, I don't read/like Penny Arcade.
As for blargg: he's doing fine (read: he's alive and well). I got a very honest and sincere explanation for his departure, but I do not feel comfortable violating his right to privacy by posting the contents of his Email here; that'd be disrespectful towards him, and I have no such disrespect.
The simple version: he won't be returning here unless there are changes.
There is a post in the moderators forum discussing the crux of the problem, but so far none of the other mods have commented.
Would be nice if we at least got a rundown of what EXACTLY he thought was wrong. Can't expect people to change if they're not told they're "doing it wrong"
tokumaru wrote:
I must admit I'm completely lost here. I wasn't even aware we had a big problem... I hope you mods can explain the situation to the rest of us sometime soon.
I must have missed it too. I do remember one debate about the issue but I didn't keep up with it. I do remember a time where we seemed to get alot of requests about putting eproms of various games in carts and it got old quick.
Conversation on this forum can be a little heavy handed at times, I think.
When I first found this forum and the brewery over at NintendoAge I referred to the brewery as "the nice one" and to this forum as the one where everyone knew their stuff.
I could see how some of this heavy handedness could get old.
When I first found this forum and the brewery over at NintendoAge I referred to the brewery as "the nice one" and to this forum as the one where everyone knew their stuff.
I could see how some of this heavy handedness could get old.
But when I tried to impose some more specific examples of what not to do, there was backlash.
koitsu wrote:
Drag wrote:
That whole period of time was just a mess for this entire community, and even if we've sorted it out, the damage was probably already done.
I'm not sure how long you've been part of the "community",
You got me there. Although my start in nes development was long ago, I had a period where I was inactive, due to the same kind of drama. Only recently have I really gotten my interest back enough to actively participate around here again.
Quote:
but this sort of situation has recurred many times over (I'm talking a good 15-20), whether it be here on the boards or on IRC or otherwise. It's nothing new, and its continual recurrence is one of the reasons why key people have removed themselves from involvement.
Right, and this is one of those times, and we did indeed lose a key person from it, which is why I said what I said. It doesn't matter if there have been 19 clusterfucks leading up to this, the 20th clusterfuck is still a clusterfuck, and this thread is asking about one of the side effects from it.
Quote:
And yes, it's very specific to the nesdev community -- for a decade I've been trying to figure out why and still have no concrete explanation. The best I have: the NES/FC seems to be an "Internet fuckwad magnet". And for the record, I don't read/like Penny Arcade.
Are you sure it's just NES/FC? I've seen pointless bickering in a few other fields of programming, not just nesdev. In my opinion, programmers in general are just as prone to the same immaturity as nesdev is.
I'd say things are better here than elsewhere, but that isn't saying much. Elsewhere tends to be really %*()@# terrible, given Gabe's Internet Fuckwad Theory.
The GD.net forums tend to be awash in rampant idiocy regarding fellows wanting to make an MMO from scratch in their bedroom. What posts aren't about the MMO project of the week tend to be equally misguided.
Here, people tend to voice opinions that may not necessarily need voicing in public, but it tends to be relatively civil. Most of the time. There is a contingent that seems morally opposed to anything money related, period. Don't know whether they're worse than the "halp me lern everyting in a week" sort that show up every other month or so or not, but neither crew helps a ton.
I do miss blargg's fantastic attention to technical details, but if he's decided to not post here or chill in #nesdev, that's his decision.
The GD.net forums tend to be awash in rampant idiocy regarding fellows wanting to make an MMO from scratch in their bedroom. What posts aren't about the MMO project of the week tend to be equally misguided.
Here, people tend to voice opinions that may not necessarily need voicing in public, but it tends to be relatively civil. Most of the time. There is a contingent that seems morally opposed to anything money related, period. Don't know whether they're worse than the "halp me lern everyting in a week" sort that show up every other month or so or not, but neither crew helps a ton.
I do miss blargg's fantastic attention to technical details, but if he's decided to not post here or chill in #nesdev, that's his decision.
Oh he left ? I didn't notice that at all, but now that you guys mention it there haven't been much activity here lately (I got decreasingly active too).
Mmh is he really that angry about me strongly opposing people who come here just to ask how to make bootlegs of games ? Well I was just pissed of by them back then but with this thread I understood I'd just have to get used to it and that I just had to completely ignore those thread instead of getting mad at someone regular here that answer to them even if they don't deserve it.
Is that the change blargg is looking for ? I don't understand and feel kind of bad but anyways he can do whatever he want.
His last discovery, the "maximal degree of synchronization with PPU", was very promising. It could allow things such as (almost ?) stable PPU writes which could lead to amazing effects. The method for such a synchronization was very complex and I didn't fully understood it. Hopefully there will be some use for it once.
About this communality's so called problems, I 100% disagree about what have been said. People just made problems up when there is now because they fear a lack of any problem.
So if you guys would better have to make up a programming problem or something in the like it would be much more helpful.
(or is it I who am the problem ? Oh god I sure hope this isn't the case)
Mmh is he really that angry about me strongly opposing people who come here just to ask how to make bootlegs of games ? Well I was just pissed of by them back then but with this thread I understood I'd just have to get used to it and that I just had to completely ignore those thread instead of getting mad at someone regular here that answer to them even if they don't deserve it.
Is that the change blargg is looking for ? I don't understand and feel kind of bad but anyways he can do whatever he want.
His last discovery, the "maximal degree of synchronization with PPU", was very promising. It could allow things such as (almost ?) stable PPU writes which could lead to amazing effects. The method for such a synchronization was very complex and I didn't fully understood it. Hopefully there will be some use for it once.
About this communality's so called problems, I 100% disagree about what have been said. People just made problems up when there is now because they fear a lack of any problem.
So if you guys would better have to make up a programming problem or something in the like it would be much more helpful.
(or is it I who am the problem ? Oh god I sure hope this isn't the case)
Bregalad wrote:
or is it I who am the problem ?
Of course you and your constant bitching about repros/money/profits was the problem for him and others. That should be obvious from the other thread where you started attacking him for just trying to discuss it.
So HE left because I have issues with those things ?? Makes no sense but if that's what he wants let him be.
This one ONE argument and I hardly remember it today actually. All I wanted is avoid NESdev supporting people who scam others, and it ended up a big argument. "constant bitching ?" Really he makes a big mess about any little thing but if that's what he wants free to him.
This one ONE argument and I hardly remember it today actually. All I wanted is avoid NESdev supporting people who scam others, and it ended up a big argument. "constant bitching ?" Really he makes a big mess about any little thing but if that's what he wants free to him.
Yes I am double posting, but only because I strongly believe this is a serious issue for many and it needs to be addressed before we implode a brilliant site and we all lose out. (posted to thread that resulted in a great asset to our community leaving)
The unfortunate reality of the internet is, we will always have people looking for an easy way out looking for someone willing to do the work for them. Even if there was a wiki or visual site dedicated to reproducing carts from cannibalized donors we would still have people come and ask I soldered A-B and never got C what did I do wrong.
So if we had that visual instruction site with detailed pictures and instructions for the lazy (maybe cut out any theory but add a troubleshooting guide) then there would be sufficient reason for a Mod to lock a thread at the instant the questions are asked and a referral to said instruction page.
As for those who whine bitch and condemn those who come here for help on touchy subjects, quit wasting your time energy and sanity on these people and put your minds together and create this instruction site to rid yourselves of this annoyance.
The unfortunate reality of the internet is, we will always have people looking for an easy way out looking for someone willing to do the work for them. Even if there was a wiki or visual site dedicated to reproducing carts from cannibalized donors we would still have people come and ask I soldered A-B and never got C what did I do wrong.
So if we had that visual instruction site with detailed pictures and instructions for the lazy (maybe cut out any theory but add a troubleshooting guide) then there would be sufficient reason for a Mod to lock a thread at the instant the questions are asked and a referral to said instruction page.
As for those who whine bitch and condemn those who come here for help on touchy subjects, quit wasting your time energy and sanity on these people and put your minds together and create this instruction site to rid yourselves of this annoyance.
Bregalad wrote:
So HE left because I have issues with those things ??
I'm guessing he left because he perceived you as so vocal and abrasive about those things.
Quote:
As for those who whine bitch and condemn those who come here for help on touchy subjects, quit wasting your time energy and sanity on these people
In case you haven't noticed that's exactly what I did.
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
As for those who whine bitch and condemn those who come here for help on touchy subjects, quit wasting your time energy and sanity on these people
In case you haven't noticed that's exactly what I did.
Maybe so, but you were not the direct target of my rant.
So I will use this as an "example" not attack to you, this reply you made could come across as being somewhat abrasive and being that your name was not mentioned in my rant can be interpreted in a negative way.
We all have our opinions on all matters, maybe we can use this as an example of when to silence our opinion and just tolerate that its out of our control. I'm sure it would cut a huge percent of the negativity we see corroding our forums. Some of the people here just need to practice a little self control.
We also have to understand that our forums are international and some things are lost in translation including the context of what we say. We may think we are contributing by voicing our opinion, but a couple of misused words or grammar is interpreted as an attack.
Peace Love and NES
I agree with whoever said that the best policy against threads about subjects you oppose is to just ignore them. I don't always do this, but I'm trying and I think I'm getting better at it.
ibeenew2 wrote:
Bregalad wrote:
or is it I who am the problem ?
Of course you and your constant bitching about repros/money/profits was the problem for him and others. That should be obvious from the other thread where you started attacking him for just trying to discuss it.
This is not entirely accurate (nor fair). There are other reasons/aspects too which have nothing to do with Bregalad. The only person here who knows what those are is me, since I've been in contact with blargg.
I would love to provide more details of the problems, but cannot out of respect for blargg (same for anyone else on this forum, just for the record; I don't want to sound like I'm giving blargg special treatment or something).
This situation should not result in a witch-hunt.
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
As for those who whine bitch and condemn those who come here for help on touchy subjects, quit wasting your time energy and sanity on these people
In case you haven't noticed that's exactly what I did.
The first part, or the second part?
I don't want to try to drive anyone away either, but from my perspective I think you have been the source of some of the negativity. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not telling you to leave or shut up or anything. You make great contributions all the time. I just notice that when negative things are said that you have often been involved in the past (for whatever that's worth, on this relatively slow moving board). Sometimes I read the things you post directed at others and I just think "geez, who cares, let the guy do whatever he wants."
I hope this doesn't lead to ganging up on Bregalad or anything, just what I've seen at times.
tokumaru wrote:
I agree with whoever said that the best policy against threads about subjects you oppose is to just ignore them. I don't always do this, but I'm trying and I think I'm getting better at it.
Yes, this is the best policy. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. And there is also a difference between mean statements and polite criticism (which I am trying to attempt here).
I really do like this forum and everybody on it, and don't understand how these big misunderstandings can happen. Most of the time nobody's being unfair/overly critical.
Good times when we had a mailing list. I remember of receiving a new noise channel info by matt conte, or even a new mapper document by Mark Knibbs. Awesome times.... awesome. What do we have now? Nothing, but destructive feedback and/or no feedback at all! Just look at my discussion regarding a test suite: nobody ever could shot a word or two.
Anyway, I believe the problem isn't blargg. Different opinions I'd say. Unfortunately, a few members seems to enjoy the "rightness of its ego" and fires without mercy.
Anyway, I believe the problem isn't blargg. Different opinions I'd say. Unfortunately, a few members seems to enjoy the "rightness of its ego" and fires without mercy.
Zepper wrote:
Good times when we had a mailing list. ... What do we have now? ...
The percentage of arguments/disagreements/drama is directly proportional to how easy it is for the masses to participate in a discussion, compounded by the number of people participating. The old nesdev (and SNESdev, for those who remember it -- guys like myself, Gau, Charles Doty, Donald Moore (MindRape), and many others whose names I've sadly forgotten) mailing lists had fewer participants.
Email lists, generally speaking, have a higher signal-to-noise ratio (e.g. more signal than noise), while public Web forums have a lower SNR. This isn't always the case (look at the NANOG mailing list sometime -- practically every thread is an argument), but generally speaking it's true. The reason being: people consider Email more personal (less anonymous), and there's a sense of professionalism when it comes to mailing list participation. What you say in Email can actually come back to haunt you (professionally) in many cases. A web forum offers an easier-to-achieve level of anonymity.
IRC is equivalent to a web forum (and in some regards much worse). #snes on EFnet still exists, though I don't recognise 90% of the inhabitants.
The younger generation (born post-1988) tend to prefer web-based everything. Hello Geocities and MySpace.
There are trolls on all mediums (IRC being the worst of the bunch) so I'm excluding those -- and those generally aren't a problem here anyway, nor are they part of the reason for blargg not returning here.
It's sad when a useful thread turns into a freak out (like I thought this one was going to...) and sadder still when we lose a valuable member of the community.
At least we can (hopefully) learn from this. I will definitely try to.
At least we can (hopefully) learn from this. I will definitely try to.
Koitsu: Did Blargg mention people who do stupid things while asking for help? Because one time I pissed him by posting some code and constantly editing it, among other things (Look at my posts from august last year if you really have to see it).
marvelus10 wrote:
We all have our opinions on all matters, maybe we can use this as an example of when to silence our opinion and just tolerate that its out of our control. I'm sure it would cut a huge percent of the negativity we see corroding our forums. Some of the people here just need to practice a little self control.
We also have to understand that our forums are international and some things are lost in translation including the context of what we say. We may think we are contributing by voicing our opinion, but a couple of misused words or grammar is interpreted as an attack.
We also have to understand that our forums are international and some things are lost in translation including the context of what we say. We may think we are contributing by voicing our opinion, but a couple of misused words or grammar is interpreted as an attack.
Well said. For an example of the latter, I once told a guy to "go away" instead of "go ahead". For me it was the same, and I wondered why he was angry
But I evenutally got my mistake and apologized. It's not always easy to talk in another language you know.Quote:
Email lists, generally speaking, have a higher signal-to-noise ratio (e.g. more signal than noise), while public Web forums have a lower SNR.
LOOOOL !!
strat wrote:
Koitsu: Did Blargg mention people who do stupid things while asking for help? Because one time I pissed him by posting some code and constantly editing it, among other things (Look at my posts from august last year if you really have to see it).
No. He and I discussed primarily 3 reasons, and two (well more like 1.5) of those are focused around this forum. They aren't necessarily focused on individuals. What I took away from our discussion is that the moderation here need to be improved, or at least refined. That doesn't equate to "more rules", it equates to "when problems occur, try to get to the root of them and solve the issue" (vs. just banning people).
I think the latter relates to what tepples has applied for quite some time, which is basically sticking to what the Parodius Policy Rulebook goes over, with the (IMHO positive) addition of don't be a dick.
I'm a continual violator of the latter (which is why I come off sounding stern most of the time :-) ), but as I've gotten older (health problems, personal issues, you name it -- real life stuff) I've resorted to the I can't be bothered form of thought. Don't worry, I still rant/rave daily. ;-)
"Don't be a Dick" is the best advice a father can give his son, and it's certainly the golden rule of the interwebs.
Like that other thread where the guy said he was uncomfortable giving his real name to folks on the forum, and then a few dicks wanted to show off how super-cool they were and find his real name. That's just being a dick, and is not constructive.
It's sad that we don't have Blargg around anymore. I was just beginning to realize the importance of his contributions when I realized he was no longer involved.
Anyway, the moral of this thread (not Blargg's departure, I'm sure he had better reasons that internet dickbaggery) is to ignore what irritates you. Only put on the fighting gloves when it is something actually important, like a web site selling unlicensed repro's that obviously violate the rights of the creators. Not that I've seen anyone actually take a stand against RetroZone for that
Like that other thread where the guy said he was uncomfortable giving his real name to folks on the forum, and then a few dicks wanted to show off how super-cool they were and find his real name. That's just being a dick, and is not constructive.
It's sad that we don't have Blargg around anymore. I was just beginning to realize the importance of his contributions when I realized he was no longer involved.
Anyway, the moral of this thread (not Blargg's departure, I'm sure he had better reasons that internet dickbaggery) is to ignore what irritates you. Only put on the fighting gloves when it is something actually important, like a web site selling unlicensed repro's that obviously violate the rights of the creators. Not that I've seen anyone actually take a stand against RetroZone for that
qbradq wrote:
Anyway, the moral of this thread (not Blargg's departure, I'm sure he had better reasons that internet dickbaggery) is to ignore what irritates you.
Unless what irritates one has the force of law, such as DMCA/EUCD-backed cryptographic lockouts, copyright term extensions, or the threat of lawsuits over accidental plagiarism.
Quote:
Only put on the fighting gloves when it is something actually important, like a web site selling unlicensed repro's that obviously violate the rights of the creators. Not that I've seen anyone actually take a stand against RetroZone for that
To an extent I take comfort in at least one of RetroZone's repros. As long as bunnyboy continues to get away with selling copies of Tetris as part of his NWC repro, I have nothing to fear from The Tetris Company by making LJ65 available under a free software license.
Tepples wrote:
To an extent I take comfort in at least one of RetroZone's repros. As long as bunnyboy continues to get away with selling copies of Tetris as part of his NWC repro, I have nothing to fear from The Tetris Company by making LJ65 available under a free software license.
Good point
Tepples wrote:
Unless what irritates one has the force of law, such as DMCA/EUCD-backed cryptographic lockouts, copyright term extensions, or the threat of lawsuits over accidental plagiarism.
Hence this statement:
QBRADQ wrote:
Only put on the fighting gloves when it is something actually important, like a web site selling unlicensed repro's that obviously violate the rights of the creators.
Incidentally that is another major reason I am trying to support the clone systems with my products. There is no need for the CIClone or other method of bypassing the DMA lockout on the toaster model.
(note, this is not aimed at anyone, just a general rant)
I always remember what someone told me a long time ago, and as I get older I see it is more true than ever.
Simply, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything".
Sure there may be things I don't really agree with, but generally I will not bring it up since it's not worth the negative vibes, unless it's really egregious somehow.
So probably the best thing to do is just ignore threads you don't like, and not bring up the same constant complaints about people trying to make money off NES development. The simple fact of the matter is almost no one is going to actually make any decent money off it, no matter what they are selling. And as I get older I also understand how expensive (time wise if nothing else) a pursuit such as writing a game or developing a piece of hardware can be. If you've never put months or years of your life into something, you probably won't understand the desire to actually get something back from it, even if it's a token amount.
Figure you sell an NES game for $30 and make $10 on it, and sell 500 carts. That's a cool $5K in profit you can make... but how long did it take to get that game ready? 4-5 months? If so, that's selling time really cheap. Obviously you do it for the fun of it instead of the money and that's what it comes down to. The profit also doesn't account for the time spent making those cartridges either, or the money you had to front to buy those parts and boards and stuff.
All the money I have made off NES development of any stripe (yes even the Ciclones and Copynes') was plowed right back into my projects and development. That money was used to buy an oscilloscope that was then used to figure out the NES' video voltage ranges and some timing information. Scopes are expensive. Without the funds generated from my earlier work, I would not be able to perform the later stuff since I wouldn't have been able to afford the scope.
I always remember what someone told me a long time ago, and as I get older I see it is more true than ever.
Simply, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything".
Sure there may be things I don't really agree with, but generally I will not bring it up since it's not worth the negative vibes, unless it's really egregious somehow.
So probably the best thing to do is just ignore threads you don't like, and not bring up the same constant complaints about people trying to make money off NES development. The simple fact of the matter is almost no one is going to actually make any decent money off it, no matter what they are selling. And as I get older I also understand how expensive (time wise if nothing else) a pursuit such as writing a game or developing a piece of hardware can be. If you've never put months or years of your life into something, you probably won't understand the desire to actually get something back from it, even if it's a token amount.
Figure you sell an NES game for $30 and make $10 on it, and sell 500 carts. That's a cool $5K in profit you can make... but how long did it take to get that game ready? 4-5 months? If so, that's selling time really cheap. Obviously you do it for the fun of it instead of the money and that's what it comes down to. The profit also doesn't account for the time spent making those cartridges either, or the money you had to front to buy those parts and boards and stuff.
All the money I have made off NES development of any stripe (yes even the Ciclones and Copynes') was plowed right back into my projects and development. That money was used to buy an oscilloscope that was then used to figure out the NES' video voltage ranges and some timing information. Scopes are expensive. Without the funds generated from my earlier work, I would not be able to perform the later stuff since I wouldn't have been able to afford the scope.
Quote:
All the money I have made off NES development of any stripe (yes even the Ciclones and Copynes') was plowed right back into my projects
Man you're such a great guy !! I wish I could say that of everyone else but oh yeah...
Quote:
Scopes are expensive.
If you buy a brand new one, yes. I got an used one for $50 in an old lab that didn't need them anymore though.
kevtris, I totally feel where you are comming from. I released an XBOX LIVE Indy Game a few months back and almost cleared $3.00 an hour it 
I am using that money to fund my NES development efforts.
I am using that money to fund my NES development efforts.Consider it an internship that you can cite should you decide to seek employment in the mainstream video game industry or start your own studio. Or are NES games, XNA games, and Android games useless on a resume?
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
All the money I have made off NES development of any stripe (yes even the Ciclones and Copynes') was plowed right back into my projects
Man you're such a great guy !! I wish I could say that of everyone else but oh yeah...
Quote:
Scopes are expensive.
If you buy a brand new one, yes. I got an used one for $50 in an old lab that didn't need them anymore though.
A $50 scope is not going to be very good. The scope I bought cost $1500 and was used. New, it was around $8000 or so. I have a cheaper analog scope, but wanted a highly decent digital one with logic analyzer attachment.
qbradq wrote:
Like that other thread where the guy said he was uncomfortable giving his real name to folks on the forum, and then a few dicks wanted to show off how super-cool they were and find his real name. That's just being a dick, and is not constructive.
Eh. I'm not happy about what I posted in that thread, but I'm not unhappy about it either. I found his real name, but didn't post it. I was just trying to give some (admittedly heavy handed) advice. I saw what he posted as unprofessional, and he absolutely would not get what he wanted with what he had posted. I was not trying to be "super-cool", though, I assure you.
I have funny ideas about free freelance work.
I don't accept free direct help just because it's free. Applying for a creative "job" without a resume or portfolio is a waste of time for everyone involved. Friends of mine offer me help like that all the time. "Oooh, you're making an NES game? I'll make music for it for free." And I always say, "No, because I can't afford to pay you and I don't like the idea of people 'working' for free for me." But the real answer is usually also, "No, because I don't like the music you make." I'm extremely hard to please, so if I didn't like a song I'd make them fix it and I think all the fun and novelty of making music for an NES game would quickly disappear for them. Not to mention I anticipate they would have to work under rather harsh limitations imposed by my music engine. Just because I'm doing this for as a side thing, does not mean I don't want it to look and feel like like a totally professional product.
That's why I'd rather pay them. I'm paying for them to deal with my feedback and guidelines. I don't want to pay for a bad product. And I don't want a cop out like, "Well, I'm doing this for free, so take it or leave it." Because then we have BOTH wasted our time. I don't think that's a bad attitude, honestly. It's like people who buy things or get things just because they're on sale or free. And then it sits in their house and they never use it.
On the internet, it's easier. If samples are posted that I don't like, I ignore the post. But if they're not... I'm stuck in the odd position of seeming interested, by asking for them, and then not replying when they're posted and I don't like them.
Which is part of why I don't agree with "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything."
If I posted something like doommaster did, I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have people say, "This style of music doesn't interest me." or "This music isn't practical for an NES game at all." than say nothing at all. If I didn't post samples, and someone told me that was why no one was replying, that's USEFUL. Much more useful than just no replies.
I realize what I tell my friends is dishonest. I'd honestly rather just tell them the truth, instead of being nice. "I don't like your music," will make them stop asking. What I say just makes them think they'll need to convince me that they're really okay with working for free. I hate that people (myself definitely included) are that uncomfortable with telling the truth because they're afraid of hurting someone's feelings. Especially in what could be considered a professional setting. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything." is perhaps the reason so little valuable critique is given these days.
Unsolicited is different, though. If someone's just posting info about their game, and someone comes in on a tirade about how that person will eventually make money from it, that's being a dick. If someone asks for feedback, and the feedback is "I won't buy this at all," that's fine. If someone asks me, "Do you like the food I made?" I will usually give an honest answer. But I'm not going to tell someone I don't like it, if they don't specifically ask me.
I see threads like this on other forums.
Poster 1: "Here's a T-shirt design. Will you buy it?"
Poster 2: "Looks great."
Poster 1: "I don't care if you think it looks great. Does it look great enough for you to buy it?"
Poster 2: "Well... no."
So. "Don't be a dick." is fine. You can say something someone might consider, "not nice." without being a dick. Did I succeed at not being a dick in the topic you mentioned? Probably not. I tried not to be one though.
As for Blargg. It is like when Q(uietust) left. I am sure we will move passed it. The things he contributed were very valuable, but if he does not come back someone else will likely fill his shoes.
Kasumi wrote:
As for Blargg. It is like when Q(uietust) left. I am sure we will move passed it. The things he contributed were very valuable, but if he does not come back someone else will likely fill his shoes.
For lack of better term, "NES audio people" are few and far between. There's been a very limited number of them, and all of them seem to disappear. The folks I got audio information from for NESTECH are gone, then Brad Taylor appeared (and is now also gone), then there's blargg (who too is gone). They're in limited supply, so the impact is greater. And that sucks.
Kasumi wrote:
I have funny ideas about free freelance work.
I don't accept free direct help just because it's free. Applying for a creative "job" without a resume or portfolio is a waste of time for everyone involved. Friends of mine offer me help like that all the time. "Oooh, you're making an NES game? I'll make music for it for free." And I always say, "No, because I can't afford to pay you and I don't like the idea of people 'working' for free for me." But the real answer is usually also, "No, because I don't like the music you make." I'm extremely hard to please, so if I didn't like a song I'd make them fix it and I think all the fun and novelty of making music for an NES game would quickly disappear for them. Not to mention I anticipate they would have to work under rather harsh limitations imposed by my music engine. Just because I'm doing this for as a side thing, does not mean I don't want it to look and feel like like a totally professional product.
That's why I'd rather pay them. I'm paying for them to deal with my feedback and guidelines. I don't want to pay for a bad product. And I don't want a cop out like, "Well, I'm doing this for free, so take it or leave it." Because then we have BOTH wasted our time. I don't think that's a bad attitude, honestly. It's like people who buy things or get things just because they're on sale or free. And then it sits in their house and they never use it.
I don't accept free direct help just because it's free. Applying for a creative "job" without a resume or portfolio is a waste of time for everyone involved. Friends of mine offer me help like that all the time. "Oooh, you're making an NES game? I'll make music for it for free." And I always say, "No, because I can't afford to pay you and I don't like the idea of people 'working' for free for me." But the real answer is usually also, "No, because I don't like the music you make." I'm extremely hard to please, so if I didn't like a song I'd make them fix it and I think all the fun and novelty of making music for an NES game would quickly disappear for them. Not to mention I anticipate they would have to work under rather harsh limitations imposed by my music engine. Just because I'm doing this for as a side thing, does not mean I don't want it to look and feel like like a totally professional product.
That's why I'd rather pay them. I'm paying for them to deal with my feedback and guidelines. I don't want to pay for a bad product. And I don't want a cop out like, "Well, I'm doing this for free, so take it or leave it." Because then we have BOTH wasted our time. I don't think that's a bad attitude, honestly. It's like people who buy things or get things just because they're on sale or free. And then it sits in their house and they never use it.
You could just say that you're very picky about music in general, and that you don't feel that their style music would fit your game. If the friend is a good one, you can outright say "I don't particularly like your music" or something softer but with the same meaning, and if they are a real friend, they will probably just shrug it off (I have been told this by people, and I'm like "ok" most of the time instead of NERDRAGE "U DONT KNO WAT UR TLAKIN' BAOUT").
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On the internet, it's easier. If samples are posted that I don't like, I ignore the post. But if they're not... I'm stuck in the odd position of seeming interested, by asking for them, and then not replying when they're posted and I don't like them.
Which is part of why I don't agree with "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything."
If I posted something like doommaster did, I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have people say, "This style of music doesn't interest me." or "This music isn't practical for an NES game at all." than say nothing at all. If I didn't post samples, and someone told me that was why no one was replying, that's USEFUL. Much more useful than just no replies.
Which is part of why I don't agree with "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything."
If I posted something like doommaster did, I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have people say, "This style of music doesn't interest me." or "This music isn't practical for an NES game at all." than say nothing at all. If I didn't post samples, and someone told me that was why no one was replying, that's USEFUL. Much more useful than just no replies.
I tend to do the ignore a post thing, but usually because I don't really want to be giving constructive criticism. If I did post, in the vast majority of cases of this happening, my posts would read "meh" or "i don't like it" which aren't helpful. On sites where lots of music is posted, it can get tiring to sift through 90% music you don't like and 10% that's at least OK, so that's where unresponsive audiences come from (8bc is an example).
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I realize what I tell my friends is dishonest. I'd honestly rather just tell them the truth, instead of being nice. "I don't like your music," will make them stop asking. What I say just makes them think they'll need to convince me that they're really okay with working for free. I hate that people (myself definitely included) are that uncomfortable with telling the truth because they're afraid of hurting someone's feelings. Especially in what could be considered a professional setting. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything." is perhaps the reason so little valuable critique is given these days.
Again, just tell them that you don't like their genre of music. I hear lots of music that I don't like but I can tell it's well-done for what it is.
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As for Blargg. It is like when Q(uietust) left. I am sure we will move passed it. The things he contributed were very valuable, but if he does not come back someone else will likely fill his shoes.
This whole thing saddens me a bit. Even I had noticed his absence kind of, but thought "I must be missing his posts due to the fact that I only check like 3 subforums here." I doubt that he'll stop NES development entirely but maybe might take a break from it or something (I can't actually tell you because I know little about it, so [/speculation]).
Also why am I posting??? back to lurker mode
qbradq wrote:
Like that other thread where the guy said he was uncomfortable giving his real name to folks on the forum, and then a few dicks wanted to show off how super-cool they were and find his real name. That's just being a dick, and is not constructive.
Reading this again it appears that I could use my own advice
My apologies for the inflammatory remarks Kasumi. I could have easily made my point without them.RushJet1 wrote:
I'm like "ok" most of the time instead of NERDRAGE "U DONT KNO WAT UR TLAKIN' BAOUT").
You would be the ideal response. I fear the unideal. I know people who have some egos about their work, but are perfectly fine people otherwise. I do not want to be the one to face the beast. Think deviantart drama ego, if you're familiar with that site. Unfortunately I live in fear of people exploding like that. Maybe I'm projecting, and it's me that's the problem, not the world.
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On sites where lots of music is posted, it can get tiring to sift through 90% music you don't like and 10% that's at least OK, so that's where unresponsive audiences come from (8bc is an example).
I understand in that case, since it's a much larger "market". I'm not saying one should post in every thread giving constructive criticism, just that sometimes silence is not the best option. It's my view that if someone is doing something wrong, and no one says anything about it, they will continue to do it. It's a sliding scale I suppose. Is what they're doing annoying enough to justify saying something? For my friends offering help it doesn't come up often enough to justify it. But for the bootleg threads here? That was coming up fairly often, and I certainly understand the backlash some of them got.
I only posted in the other thread when my "scale" tipped because several people had interest, but he was not making it easy to accomplish his own goal.
I know some people who say politically incorrect things in some... bad situations. It's usually not annoying enough to say anything, but when it's really bad, you tell the person. Because if no one else does it, they will never think that it might be wrong. Say something in a non condescending tone. But say something.
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This whole thing saddens me a bit.
I just get into the habit of making people on forums I frequent like celebrities. "Aw, man. All this stuff they create is amazing!" and when they disappear I had as much contact with them as I've always had, and people can still appreciate their stuff. When Michael Jackson died, Thriller didn't become a worse song. Shame there won't be new stuff, but I never talked to Michael anyway. Very nearly the same with Blargg leaving/hiatusing. I talked to him like once, he seems reasonable. All I really know about him are his contributions, though. I understand those who were in more regular contact with, yet not close enough to get the reasons for his departure, though.
Quietust still updates Nintendulator, and bunnyboy still updates powerpak mappers. Maybe blargg will continue to work on things, and post them someplace for us to find.
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Also why am I posting??? back to lurker mode
Quite, quite. For me as well. I write too much anyway.
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My apologies for the inflammatory remarks Kasumi.
Thank you. I apologize as well. By saying something, you made me feel I did something wrong and reflect on it. That is something I support.