Yes consoles could be used for other purposes but as for the games themselves I fail to understand any argument that they are not just toys.
this topic is an offshoot from Justifying this hobby
this topic is an offshoot from Justifying this hobby
Ask the US Army:
If a PS2 + Dance Dance Revolution is a toy, or a Wii + Wii Fit is a toy, then a treadmill and a barbell are toys too.
- Battlezone: Bradley Trainer Edition (early tank FPS, used for training)
- America's Army (infantry FPS, used for recruiting)
If a PS2 + Dance Dance Revolution is a toy, or a Wii + Wii Fit is a toy, then a treadmill and a barbell are toys too.
- For my best, a toy is something ludic or that mimics something real, in reduced size, usually built with plastic case.
- A computer isn't a toy; you can install a software for children and they can play with that. There are a couple of products that mimics a toy though; special TVs with a custom case, like Barbie-theme for girls, or the Pooh bear for the boys. They are not toys in this case. Next, Mega Man is a game; you can buy Mega Man action figures - those ones are toys, including plastic vehicles, guns etc..
- You can think something as a toy. Well, a new cute car, red, sport, looks like "toys for adults". Got it? ^_^;;
- A computer isn't a toy; you can install a software for children and they can play with that. There are a couple of products that mimics a toy though; special TVs with a custom case, like Barbie-theme for girls, or the Pooh bear for the boys. They are not toys in this case. Next, Mega Man is a game; you can buy Mega Man action figures - those ones are toys, including plastic vehicles, guns etc..
- You can think something as a toy. Well, a new cute car, red, sport, looks like "toys for adults". Got it? ^_^;;
toy
–noun
1. an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with; plaything.
2. a thing or matter of little or no value or importance; a trifle.
3. something that serves for or as if for diversion, rather than for serious pratical use.
4. a small article of little value but prized as a souvenir or for some other special reason; trinket; knickknack; bauble.
5. something diminutive, esp. in comparison with like objects.
6. an animal of a breed or variety noted for smallness of size: The winning terrier at the dog show was a toy.
7. a close-fitting cap of linen or wool, with flaps coming down to the shoulders, formerly worn by women in Scotland.
8. a simple, light piece of music, esp. of 16th or 17th century England, written for the virginal.
9. Obsolete:
a. amorous dallying.
b. a playful or amusing act; diversion; pastime.
You could argue for #3 I suppose, but that would make many everyday objects into toys as well. A painting is a toy. A cat is a toy.
–noun
1. an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with; plaything.
2. a thing or matter of little or no value or importance; a trifle.
3. something that serves for or as if for diversion, rather than for serious pratical use.
4. a small article of little value but prized as a souvenir or for some other special reason; trinket; knickknack; bauble.
5. something diminutive, esp. in comparison with like objects.
6. an animal of a breed or variety noted for smallness of size: The winning terrier at the dog show was a toy.
7. a close-fitting cap of linen or wool, with flaps coming down to the shoulders, formerly worn by women in Scotland.
8. a simple, light piece of music, esp. of 16th or 17th century England, written for the virginal.
9. Obsolete:
a. amorous dallying.
b. a playful or amusing act; diversion; pastime.
You could argue for #3 I suppose, but that would make many everyday objects into toys as well. A painting is a toy. A cat is a toy.
I think it's an interesting blend of art and science that makes a good videogame. Games can be toys, but they can also be their own microcosm which I think goes beyond the scope of a toy.
The way I see it its simple. You play video game to play because most video games are designed for the sole propose of being something to play with so its a toy.
There are many outer types of complex and heavily engineered toys that can be quite createive and artfull, but they are still toys.
Whats wrong with it being a toy? Just because a lot of us a grown and still injoy playing them dose not make it a bad thing. personally I am loseing interest in video games but thats not really the point.
There are many outer types of complex and heavily engineered toys that can be quite createive and artfull, but they are still toys.
Whats wrong with it being a toy? Just because a lot of us a grown and still injoy playing them dose not make it a bad thing. personally I am loseing interest in video games but thats not really the point.
It's a matter of whether the word itself is correct. Personally I would never call something displayed on a screen a "toy," because it is not a physical little knickknack. Television is not a toy, DVDs are not toys, the internet is not a toy, and video games are not toys.
In the original topic, I understood "toy" to mean the opposite of "tool". If you define "toy" as a physical object, then the computer becomes a "toy" when a video game is in RAM and a "tool" when OpenOffice.org is in RAM. In that case, a video game is "a program that makes a computer into a toy".
peppers wrote:
A video game is something outher than a toy?
I would have to say "Yes" I'll list give some thought as to why I chose this answer.
First I'll ask a question,
- "Is a 'game' a toy?" as in "football" or "monopoly".
You do play sports, but you don't play with it as a child would play with a yoyo.
Board games (candy land, monopoly, ouija) may be manufactured by toy companies. But are clearly not toys in a sense.
- Games have a goal that follow rules.
With toys you make up your own rules and the goal changes based on the imagination of the beholder.
Now let's go to the dictionary and define the difference between a game and a toy.
Game
Dictionary.com wrote:
–noun 1. an amusement or pastime: children's games.
TOY
Dictionary.com wrote:
–noun 1. an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with; plaything.
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Second thought
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I feel a Video Game can bring emotions like no other form of enterntainment can bring. Not even movies, and definitely not a doll or a paddleball.
Especially now, Video Games may have resembled toys, And I would consider an Atari 2600 a toy, but the modern VGs have multi million dollar budgets, contain multple forms of art (Eg: Visual, music, moion acting, voice acting, Programming etc.) and take ages to develop remember tloz:tp)
If I had a choice I wouldn't even say the g in rpg. If it were up to me I probbably would've called it a Virtual Adventure or something... Not Role Playing game.
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Breakdown & Conclusion
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I conclude that Something that Amuse a person( EG: Fiction books, movies, Video Games, Fine Art, etc)are not toys just because they share some similar roles and effects
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It is worth mentioning that I would conside 'Ateam' for the Atari 2600 a toy but not 'Grand theft auto iv' for PC/360/ps3.
(Didn't know where to slip that in. LOL.)
And this is the end of my report or whatver.
I know, it sucked.
a football is most definatly a toy
Then what is EA's Madden NFL series?
Answer: Video games are computer simulations of toys.
Answer: Video games are computer simulations of toys.
peppers wrote:
a football is most definatly a toy
LOL, then those sports stars are getting paid millions of dollars for playing with a toy. (The really do get paid too much.) And it sucks that people have riots 'cause of that stuff.
Back on the VGs. I believe it is degrading to call video games "toys" I feel they're more comparable to books. (At least some)
They offer an interactive experience like nothing else can.
But as tepples said
tepples wrote:
Video games are computer simulations of toys
Through my mind, this is true if it is a VG of a toy or an arcade game.
And I've always felt uneasy that VG's are sold in toy stores.
//I dunno, I've been devoted to VG's my whole life, I've also had a deep hate for toys too. maybe I just don't want to admit that I'm going to college and getting a degree related to "toys". (Damn, I hate that word!)
Some of my favorite toys that I had when I was growing up was a cap from a tube of toothpaste and cardboard boxes. I didn't really like these highly corperated toys that lacked imagineation to use them. But I did have plenty.
I think a video game is a complex compilation of various art forms.
(Please don't bring up the argument "are video games an art", that's not the point)
Also, Sorry for double posting. I did this for context.
Edit:
I guess one way to burn me is to say Nintendo manufactured many toys back in the days.
Somebody better respect my devotion to this thread, I'm doing this on a 46k modem with internet explorer.
(Please don't bring up the argument "are video games an art", that's not the point)
Also, Sorry for double posting. I did this for context.
Edit:
I guess one way to burn me is to say Nintendo manufactured many toys back in the days.
Somebody better respect my devotion to this thread, I'm doing this on a 46k modem with internet explorer.
ironfist61 wrote:
peppers wrote:
a football is most definatly a toy
LOL, then those sports stars are getting paid millions of dollars for playing with a toy. (The really do get paid too much.) And it sucks that people have riots 'cause of that stuff.
Yeah that is correct.
ironfist61 wrote:
LOL, then those sports stars are getting paid millions of dollars for playing with a toy.
I believe this is a good time to say how ridiculous I think this is. A sport is something you do, not something you watch. A few guys are paid huge cash to play a game while a bunch of people that get absolutely nothing out of the victory of either team keep running this billionaire industry. There are even people killing each other because of teams.
Here in Brazil it's some kind of crime to not root for any soccer team. People look at me like I'm an alien when I say I don't have a team. Everyone really goes "what's your team?", like not having one isn't even an option, I find it retarded. But it's true, 99% of the population roots for a team, including 90-year-old ladies.
I guess people just like to watch other people doing things instead of doing them themselves for some reason. Stupid reality shows like Big Brother are big hits, and there's nothing really interesting going on, it's just a bunch of people doing regular things. Sex is another thing that's much more fun to do than watch, yet porn is... well, everyone knows how popular porn is.
I don't mean to offend anyone here who does like (watching) sports, it's just that I don't get it. All I think this really does is create a world where a guy is paid millions to kick a ball around.
I totally second that, it's ridiculous how much people are paid to play soccer and how much crazy people can go fan of their team.
Then again many people can think it's crazy to be fan of a video game.
Then again many people can think it's crazy to be fan of a video game.
tokumaru wrote:
ironfist61 wrote:
LOL, then those sports stars are getting paid millions of dollars for playing with a toy.
I believe this is a good time to say how ridiculous I think this is. A sport is something you do, not something you watch. A few guys are paid huge cash to play a game while a bunch of people that get absolutely nothing out of the victory of either team keep running this billionaire industry. There are even people killing each other because of teams.
Here in Brazil it's some kind of crime to not root for any soccer team. People look at me like I'm an alien when I say I don't have a team. Everyone really goes "what's your team?", like not having one isn't even an option, I find it retarded. But it's true, 99% of the population roots for a team, including 90-year-old ladies.
I guess people just like to watch other people doing things instead of doing them themselves for some reason. Stupid reality shows like Big Brother are big hits, and there's nothing really interesting going on, it's just a bunch of people doing regular things. Sex is another thing that's much more fun to do than watch, yet porn is... well, everyone knows how popular porn is.
I don't mean to offend anyone here who does like (watching) sports, it's just that I don't get it. All I think this really does is create a world where a guy is paid millions to kick a ball around.
ironfist61 wrote:
But as tepples said
Through my mind, this is true if it is a VG of a toy or an arcade game.
And I've always felt uneasy that VG's are sold in toy stores.
tepples wrote:
Video games are computer simulations of toys
Through my mind, this is true if it is a VG of a toy or an arcade game.
And I've always felt uneasy that VG's are sold in toy stores.
There's no problem. "Grown-up toy" stores that sell radio control airplanes and helicopters made by Great Planes often sell copies of a flight simulator program called RealFlight, published by Great Planes. As far as I can tell, it's for fans of R/C planes to train during the off-season.
I suppose it depend on how you were raised.
I think if one were raised to be a hardcore worker, then that person would view any non productive object (Solely for entertainment purposes of course) as a toy.
I dunno what the opposite would be, damn.
Maybe I got the theory backwards.
My dad's a hard worker, I'm pretty sure he raised me to be one.
Crap, Maybe it depends on culture or something.
I think if one were raised to be a hardcore worker, then that person would view any non productive object (Solely for entertainment purposes of course) as a toy.
I dunno what the opposite would be, damn.
Maybe I got the theory backwards.
My dad's a hard worker, I'm pretty sure he raised me to be one.
Crap, Maybe it depends on culture or something.
tokumaru wrote:
ironfist61 wrote:
LOL, then those sports stars are getting paid millions of dollars for playing with a toy.
I believe this is a good time to say how ridiculous I think this is. A sport is something you do, not something you watch.
That was my point. It's something you do.
I mentioned sports because 'It isn't a job, and it isn't a toy neither... It's a game."
Oh and when I mentioned "football" I didn't mean a football, I meant the set of rules and everything that revolves around a football. The game was the focus.
Note: A "pigskin" was the football I was referring to.
not the white one that resembles a toy.
Football is a game you play with a ball. A ball is a toy.
peppers wrote:
Football is a game you play with a ball. A ball is a toy.
Tic-tac-toe is a game you play with a pencil. A pencil is a toy.
Hide and seek is a game you play with people. People are toys.
peppers wrote:
Football is a game you play with a ball. A ball is a toy.
A wrecking ball is a toy?
peppers wrote:
Football is a game you play with a ball. A ball is a toy.
Yeah. I believe sports are games meant for recreation. But the number of people that made a recreation out of watching other people playing created the illusion that playing is a job/profession, but I believe that in the core they are still games.
For the record, I guess video games are toys, yeah. But who says toys aren't important? Recreation is just as important as many other things in life for someone that expects to be happy. Grown ups can play with toys, why not? If it brings enjoyment and doesn't hurt anyone, it's fair game.
ironfist61 wrote:
A wrecking ball is a toy?
Using them does seem pretty fun! =)
But "wrecking ball" has the adjective in front of the noun to make it clear that it's a very specific type of ball, one not originally meant for recreation.
tokumaru wrote:
peppers wrote:
Football is a game you play with a ball. A ball is a toy.
Yeah. I believe sports are games meant for recreation. But the number of people that made a recreation out of watching other people playing created the illusion that playing is a job/profession, but I believe that in the core they are still games.
I'm just stating that
I believe that if an object was designed for recreation, that does not necessarily make it a "toy".
There are many examples to back this up, I'll list a few.
Fiction books
Movies
Music
Painting
ETC.
These are their own thing that many people use for recreation but aren't toys, and that's how I view video games.
I see video games as an alterative to movies (or motion pictures, if that's what you call 'em) I treat some vg's as if they were an interactive movie.
tokumaru wrote:
Using them does seem pretty fun! =)
And the whole reason I brought up sports was to define the contrast between toys and games.
I'm a doer not a teacher, so I can understand why some of my examples are being brought out of context.
Quote:
Fiction books
Movies
Music
Painting
Movies
Music
Painting
I agree: those are "works", not "toys".
A "game" is a stylized method of competition, usually involving playing with toys. Hockey is a game; the puck and sticks are toys. Chess is a game; the pieces are toys.
A "video game" is a computer simulation of toys and of a game involving those toys. But the player need not play the game; there's an article on Slashdot right now about players who play their own games with the toys, not the intended game. For example, a sandbox video game has plenty of toys, and the player can play the "game" (mission) or not. In SimCity, the player can put down zones (toys), and the player can choose to make a game out of it (scenarios) or not (marathon mode). In Grand Theft Auto 3 and later, the player can go steal cars (toys) and do sidequests (games) with or without entering the main mission (game).
Finally hit on the reasoning I was trying to come up with. Yes, video games belong on the conceptual level of books and movies, and not tiny plastic elephants.
tepples wrote:
Quote:
Fiction books
Movies
Music
Painting
Movies
Music
Painting
I agree: those are "works", not "toys".
A "game" is a stylized method of competition, usually involving playing with toys. Hockey is a game; the puck and sticks are toys. Chess is a game; the pieces are toys.
media(the discs or carts = toybox
object code = TOYS!
Music, video, story etc= Artforms compiled within the game.
That list covers all but the console.
The console = the doorway to the virtual playset.
- Well, back to the topic, I don't think a videogame is a toy. It may be ludic, however you don't play with it the same way you do with Lego or a Teddy Bear. 
It is up to us, and our very subjective perceptions, to determine what is or isn't a toy. If playing with a toy makes you happy, picture that happy image. If you want to think you're above that, think of it in a different light. People attach labels to things; there's no cosmic rule mandating or governing it.
Fx3 wrote:
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That looks more like a decoration, Which usually has a tag that states "not a toy".
IRONY!