How does a game know if "The Disc Cannot Be Read"?

Okay, so I had a copy of Super Smash Bros. Melee that I let someone I know "barrow" a number of years ago, but now that he's gone off to college so I got it back. I put it into my GameCube, but it tells me that "The Disc Cannot Be Read". I take it out and look at the disc, and I notice there are a couple of pretty deep scratches, and knowing the game is messed up anyway, I figure I'd get a very mild abrasive and try to get them out at the cost of putting in a million smaller ones. (Maybe not my best idea ever...) The deep scratches are still kind of there, but I put it in and the game went to the title screen and then prompted me that it couldn't read the disc. Then, I rubbed it for another very long time to where the disc has no trace of heavy scratches but a light haze on it from all the microscopic scratches on it. I put it in and I get past the title screen to the main menu and try to start one player, but it complains again that the disc couldn't be read, so I just took out the disc, wiped it off, and put it back in and it worked. It then displayed that error message every time the game would load (which is even when the game is telling you what your score is at the end of a fight, oddly enough) and I got lazy to the point where I wouldn't even take out the game, I'd just lift the lid and put it back down again, and, despite me never even touching the disc, it would miraculously work. I don't even have an explanation for that. I can access every part of the game I tested, I'd just have to open and close the lid about 2-3 times to get it to work.

I'm no expert in the hardware and firmware of the Gamecube, but if it's anything like other consoles or the Wii...

Either the "Disc cannot be read" text comes from the Gamecube firmware, or the boot/executable files on the game disc that are loaded first before the game itself. Consider that the Gamecube boot screen appears with the logo, it fades to black, then either the game starts playing (or asks to run in progressive scan mode) or it prints "disc cannot be read" to the screen.

There are error correction codes (ECC) and checksums embedded in the disc data. If the errors are not correctable and/or the checksums don't match => "the disc cannot be read".

The primary cause can vary, of course.

The thing is is that this can happen anytime during the game, not just at the booting screen. I wonder, is the disc drive handled by hardware or software?


How can the error correction codes tell what is an error vs regular data? I wish there were a way to override it or something and try to play the game, although it would probably crash.

As I understand it: The drive's microcontroller calculates the error correction and returns either a 2048-byte sector or an "I/O error" status. The software is responsible for retrying, and if several tries to read the same sector all produce "I/O error", the software (either the console's firmware or the game's executable) will display the error message.

I don't think there's a way to override an I/O error, not unless you want the game to crash.

The closest thing to an override is to trigger a re-read attempt. If the disc is barely working, opening and closing the lid effectively resets the retry counter, letting it maybe get the data it needs to proceed.

I have an old Melee disc that has a nasty scratch on some data related to the game's initial boot-up. A few good retries and I can get past the title screen, and it's fine from there on.

This sort of thing may have been more common with earlier disc systems if their practices weren't so shitty. Some Sega CD games will just try to load the data, expect it to work, and if there's a problem they'll just sit there without a message, or any attempt to reinitialize the disc, or open the tray, etc. Games like Melee offer a much better experience through a robust design.

I know this thread is more of the technical side but I figured I would chime in. I fool around down at a local retro shop and we have nothing but trouble with Gamecube scratches. Almost every other system you can just stick up to a grinding wheel with a cotton buff pad and it will fix almost any issue. For whatever reason, this makes Gamecube games usually not work. If you do decide to go this route, go super light and do minimal buffing possible or there is a specific Gamecube buffing pad you can purchase.

Just curious, Espozo... do you have a Wii to test this on? Do you get similar results?

Off topic, my copy of Brawl always freezes every single time on the stage select screen, and only on the stage select screen. It's a good thing I'm not fussy about which stage we're playing and just leave it on Random.

That's not really a problem at all, Brawl is a horrible game, one of the worst Nintendo developed and/or published on the Wii.

I think you're forgetting how crappy the Wii's library was...

Also, you're forgetting how fun Brawl hacking is. (Although SSB4 seems to be making that obsolete.)


I have a Wii, but unfortunately, this beast is in the way:


I put my Wii in the closet because I didn't think I'd need it because the Wii U can play Wii games.

Also, while I was looking through my camera, I found this. I didn't think Stef played Splatoon.


It is quite odd though. I looked at my Super Monkey Ball 2 disc, and it's got smudges and deep scratches all over it, and not once has it given me a disc read error. What the hell. I could even show you the difference if toothpaste weren't drying on my Super Smash Bros Melee disc for the 100th time.

It works a little better now, but man, what a scratched piece of garbage this Super Smash Bros Melee disc is.


I even wiped of the lens of the GameCube with my glasses wipe to no avail.

I'd just pirate a copy for the Wii. You have the disc, and trying to fix it is a hopeless endeavor. Nintendo replaces discs IIRC, but at some cost.

Not if I want a notice from AT&T.


Even old GameCube discs? You know what I'll do? I'll go to the game store, and see if they have it there, and then compare it to the cost of having the disc replaced by Nintendo.

Actually, I'm out of luck with Nintendo...


Actually, the Game Exchange near me has a disc repair machine. I doubt it'll work, but it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work there, then I can just buy a new one there because they offer to test the games.

Thanks for everyone's help though, and I'll tell you if I get it to work or get a new copy. The disc is just a bitch.

So in case you did not know, Game Stop has been selling older system games on their website but can still be looked up and ordered in store. Returns can be returned in store for cash or credit as well. Not condoning anything but most can put 2 and 2 together with this post.

I assume this shop knows what their doing but again don't just let them stick your game up to a standard buffing pad attached to a grinding wheel. Like I said this will 90% ruin the game. A specific Game Cube buffing pad exists.

I guess this is what I'll do... If there's a copy of the game there, I'll have them try to buff it, even if they don't have the correct pad because its worth a shot. (Maybe I can get them to put it on super light, because as you saw in the picture, the scratches are of microscopic depth) If it doesn't work, then I can just buy the game there. There's no sense in having a half working game and a fully working game because you're never going to play the half working one.

Thanks about the specific buffing wheel for GameCube discs though. I had no clue they existed, because I probably would have gone to the game store and screwed up my disc further, even if I couldn't get a replacement.


I've never been too crazy about Game Stop for a number of reasons. All game stores are known to give you bad prices for games though, that's not my main problem with them. (My aunt actually accidentally got me the European version of R-Type III, and when I went to sell it at my local game store, they said they'd only give me $12 when they had it in the computer for a $70 value! Jesus, at least give me a fourth the value.)

Yeah I have ruined a desirable Gamecube disc or two myself (Mario Kart Double Dash and Twilight Princess) by just pressing the discs up to the pad lightly when they could not be read. I will however say that I did the same to Kirby's Air Ride and Zelda Ocarina of Time + Master Quest without issue. Do not use Game Stops liquid "refinishing compound" that they sell in store. It will go everywhere and get inside the discs inside ring. A regular plastic "stick" buff product found at the local hardware store works just fine. Something else I just thought of: We buffed the absolute mess and I mean a overkill amount on a NBA game for Game Cube with the Skip Doctor product and it read perfectly fine. Just some more food for thought.

The Gamecube specific buff system is not cheap. Ebay has one for $60. You could easily replace the game for this price. Hopefully the store near you has this system and are willing to do it for you for a reasonable fee. http://www.ebay.com/itm/JFJ-EASYPRO-PLU ... 0541005190

Most Wii games weren't, strictly speaking, published by Nintendo. Third party developers often turn to third party publishers.

One super easy way to identify a Nintendo published Wii game is whether it came with a Club Nintendo insert or not. The Club Nintendo website also listed upcoming Nintendo-published games, occasionally this included third party-developed games, but not often.

In that context, Brawl is one of the worst Wii games ever published or developed by Nintendo. It's bad because it's the exact opposite of a good game (Melee). Nintendo / HAL carefully, with ridiculous precision, sucked all the fun. Brawl is essentially "Melee safe version", where nobody actually gets hurt and everyone is a winner.

This is really subjective. I enjoyed Brawl a lot more than I did Melee, and features like the stage builder were really great and added a lot more fun for me that didn't exist in Melee. I don't think this thread is really about debating which Smash Bros games are better, though?

Some of Brawl's criticisms aren't subjective. You can plainly see Brawl is an uglier game than Melee. It lacks anti-aliasing, the visual style has an unnecessarily dark and gritty appearance and the textures are hardly improved. The music and sound are more muffled and the sound effects were significantly toned down to be softer and less "dangerous" sounding (compare punching/hitting sfx between the two games). The controls and physics were heavily delayed and made less responsive, it's a lot harder to move around, land hits (due to the excessive invicibility frames) and any hits that do connect have unnecessary pausing which disrupts the flow of the action. A good example of this is Pikachu's Down + A attack (electric spin).

But yeah this isn't relevant to the thread.

Brawl's best feature was the homebrew launcher.

I'm not quite sure about "really".


I will admit, I did enjoy the stage builder, even with its BS block limit (which can be overcome by making the level on the computer). I also liked the revamped special smash. However, generally, I don't like the stages as much, and like most people, I don't like the mechanics of the game as much, like how it's much slower, and my favorite character (Captain Falcon) was crap in that game where he has been a top contender otherwise. Subspace Emissary also blew, and that wouldn't really matter because I could just not play it, but there's no adventure mode and I found that pretty fun. No real break the targets and no race to the finish also kind of sucked too. This is really objective of me, but I actually think Super Smash Bros. Melee is a better looking game. Definitely not more realistic looking (the characters look as if they were made of plastic) but I'm not a fan of Brawl's "edginess", which basically means washed out textures and fake looking printed on shadows that Super Smash Bros. Melee didn't even bother with. Brawl is definitely more realistic, but Melee is cleaner looking in my opinion. It's also easy to pick on Brawl now when Super Smash Bros. 4 is basically Brawl except better graphically, like a lot more lighting generated in real time. I still do think that Super Smash Bros. 4 doesn't look that great given the hardware, because although the character models are fantastic, the stages look like they were given half as much attention. It doesn't help that half of them are from earlier games either. A lot of the problems I had with Super Smash Bros. Brawl were only worsened with Super Smash Bros. 4. The single player modes (or lack of single player modes) in that game absolutely suck, and while I know Super Smash Bros. is typically a multiplayer game, I don't have people over at my house all the time. Online multiplayer is also kind of useless because the delay, although little, destroys the game. At least the lag is not terabad like in another popular Wii U game that lacks a good single player...

Overall, if I rank all the Super Smash Bros games, it would probably go like this:

1. Super Smash Bros. Melee (The best single player, second best looking in my humble opinion, and the best mechanics. I think the number of characters is good to where there's enough, but it's not overwhelming.)

2. Super Smash Bros. (I really like the atmosphere of the game, like the obnoxious announcer and the really satisfying noises and effects that appear whenever you hit someone. The crazy hit stun is also great, and combined with everything else, you really feel more powerful in this one than any other Super Smash Bros. game. However, you're slower than I wish you were in every sense which makes the game less exciting than Melee or Smash 4 though. Pretty much every stage is a winner in this game. The main problem is the lack of content, which is a major one.)

3. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (I'm not going to bother with 3DS) (The game basically handles like Melee except not as fast (although probably faster than the original game) or as powerful feeling in my opinion in that you recover from being hit a lot faster, which means you can't ever really have someone cornered, which may be good to some people, but I don't like it as much. Single player mode in the game sucks, from crappy classic mode to lack of adventure/subspace emissary where it feels like it's the second smallest Super Smash Bros. game when it's really the largest in terms of data (because every modern game seems to be bloated with whatever) by about a factor of 2x. I listed other complaints earlier)

4. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Basically gave my entire opinion on the game earlier. I feel it's the only Super Smash Bros. game to become obsolete by another one.)


This thread can go anywhere it wants to now until I get to go to the game store.

Edit: New posts came in...


I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that. Melee just looked so much smoother. For example, Melee used a lot more vertex shading instead of textures that make the game look more "realistic", but the textures are fairly low resolution and end up looking worse.

Overall, I seem to have the same opinions about Brawl as you, HVC-Man.

Brawl has as much antialiasing as Melee. Both have a "deflicker" option to turn vertical filtering on or off. Perhaps you notice it more if you have the Wii connected to a progressive monitor, either using a component cable or through your monitor's deinterlacer.

And Brawl was the first dual-layer Wii game, which exposed a lot of Wii consoles for having broken laser assemblies that just happened to work with single-layer discs.

I have tested Melee and Brawl on a Wii using component cables on an SDTV CRT (480i), Brawl has jaggy edges on everything, where Melee doesn't. Brawl literally looks like a PS2 game. Last I checked I have de-flicker turned on for both of them. Hard not to on the average CRT.

I would love to hear an explanation though.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend anyone to stick an optical disc on a grinding wheel. Even resurfacing machines costing up to a couple thousand dollars are still manual machines and the quality of the resurfacing is going to depend a lot on the operator. The one time that I took some discs to a local game store and had them resurfaced, they came out looking like crap with buffing marks all over. I'd never do it again. Maybe if you don't care to potentially ruin your games, it's worth saving a little on the shipping, but nearly all of my disc based games are for Sega CD and Saturn and I don't wish to take chances with them. I've sent my games to Azuradisc, including ones that were poorly resurfaced locally, and they came back looking like new.

Shipping isn't cheap, but finding a high-end professional machine with a professional operator locally is probably about a 0 percent chance for most people.

GameCube games looks better than the Wii games the vast majority of the time. Developers didn't care to even make a good looking game for the Wii because the hardware was less powerful than the Xbox 360 or PS3 anyway. I haven't seen anything on the Wii as good looking as Rogue Squadron 2 or 3, or even F-Zero GX.


I mean, I guess it's worth a shot at the store first though. They can't possibly screw it up to the point to that it's damaged irreversibly.

I've heard that resurfacing a disc dry can do this from getting a disc hot and warping it. One instance wherein an operator needs to be on top of his machine to ensure proper results.

I don't know about the disc marks. I kind of think it was just the operator not taking their time and letting the disc sit too long. Myself and the owner of my local retro shop have both buffed out discs on the buffing wheel and they look just as good if not better than Game Stops resurface job.

FYI we do not use the liquid re finisher because it gets inside the discs interior ring. We use a hard plastic compound similar to this Jewelers Rouge and Polishing compound kit
http://www.pjtool.com/6-pc-jewelers-rou ... aQodJvIJVg

If you guys want, tomorrow I will find a scratched game at the game store, and then buff out and take detailed before and after pics and post if it will help clarify.

Sounds great!


This stuff becomes solid, right? Otherwise, you could just wash it out under the sink. I got Novus 2 in the inside clear ring of my Super Smash Bros Melee disc but I got it out with water from the sink.

My plastic polishing kit has come in handy more times than I could count... I have to say though, one think I can kind of start to appreciate shiny plastic though, because at least if it gets scratched, you can buff it out, but if the plastic has a mat finish, you're screwed. Of course, scratches on mat finished plastic are almost invisible, it's only if they're deep that's the problem.

I got a Wii U GameCube controller adapter (its mandatory for Super Smash Bros) and although it looks nice in the picture...



...it's made from the cheapest plastic around. Had I not known any better, I'd have thought it'd be some Mad Catz crap, but no. It got a huge, ugly "scribble scratch" on it from when I put it in my bag with my Wii U, (that was coated in plastic wrap, along with everything else but that) and the scratch was so deep you'd have thought I stabbed it with a knife. I got rid of it, but I basically sanded down the whole thing to where the top is shiny while the rest is still mat finished. I doubt it, but is there a way to try and restore a mat finish, like by pressing really low grit sand paper down on it or something? (I mean, the plastic is so seemingly malleable that it can't be that difficult.)

Kind of related, but man, I never noticed how cheaply game boxes are made these days, or at least the Wii U's. (I don't remember the Xbone's being much better though.) The actual box is more like a frame than anything, the cover is just about what gives it the shape. All of my Wii U game boxes look like they were in a car accident in that the paper has rips and the plastic over it is punched in, while my GameCube boxes are perfect looking due to the fact there's no place where there's only paper and thin plastic over it.

Edit: Only related to Super Smash Bros, but I found out that http://www.captainfalcon.com/ is indeed, a real website. Damn it Nintendo, make another F-Zero game. I'd really like to see Black Shadow over Ganondorf and give Ganondorf his own moves that are actually from any Legend of Zelda games, like what this on person has done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szggXY8k99I

I'm probably alone in this opinion, but as much as I love Legend of Zelda and F-Zero, Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon was an amazingly badass decision for Melee. He is bar none my favorite character in that game. Now for Brawl and 4, where they updated Ganondorf to the slower moving Twilight Princess version, yeah the semi-cloning of Captain Falcon started to lose its camp appeal. He's different enough, but I don't recall TP Ganondorf ever unleashing a Ganon Punch. He's still fun to play as, but Nintendo nerfed him by making him even slower and reducing the ridiculous power of his attacks. The least they could have done was give him some attacks relevant to Twilight Princess.

I always thought that Ganondorf was a bad deal (who wants 1.5x the power for half the speed!) but this is only made worse in Brawl and Smash 4. (1.2x the power for a third the speed! )

And yeah, nothing from Twilight Princess is incorporated into his move set, aside from that one taunt...

OK here are several before and after pics that I personally buffed out. I have very little experience doing this and as you can see by the pics they came out pretty well. No photoshopping gimmicks or switcheroos here. I did have to change the angles a bit though the overhead lights created quite the glare and interfered with several pics.

more before and afters

I must be one of the few decent Melee Ganondorf players then, because I pick him over Captain Falcon any day. Although yes Falcon has excellent speed and juggling capabilities, I find he jumps a bit too high and his speed is difficult to control. What I love about Ganondorf is his short jumps allow for easy air attacks, he's tougher to knock off the stage and his insane power helps make up for his slow speed. By comparison, Bowser and Donkey Kong, despite being heavy and "powerful", aren't that strong. In fact I consider them not much more powerful than the rest of the cast. Ganondorf is the only true heavyweight character in the game. His knockback power is ridiculous.

Wow, that turned out nice! (I bet even the GameCube will accept a disc that clean. ) Yeah, I'll try and get my mother to drive me to the store. I don't actually have my driver's license yet...


I guess we're opposite then. The thing I don't like about Ganondorf is that you're almost depending on your opponents to screw up in that you're on the defensive, while you're on the offensive as the speedy Captain Falcon. It's kind of remarkable how similar Captain Falcon and Ganondorf are, but how different they play. This is just me though, but I never had a problem with controlling Captain Falcon. It really just comes down to what you prefer. The best Pichu player will undoubtedly beat the worst Fox player.

Just be careful. Like I said Gamecube discs for whatever reason have a huge failure rate when buffed with a regular pad. If the shop has a Gamecube specific pad that's the way to go. Game Stop sells SB Melee for 54.99, Ebay is around 55ish as well. If you do not want to spend anything don't forget about what I posted about with return policies.

Blame competitive melee making a resurgence the past few years. Popularity of the game has almost never been higher, despite it being out for 15 years.

Jesus I'm old. I did not need that.

Actually I'd say the competitive scene and high resale value are a compliment to the creative genius and skill of the teams at Nintendo and HAL. For such an early Gamecube game, with a really short development cycle even if they started right after SSB 64, Melee is an amazing game and a marquee title of the console. I still play it to this day. It's just as responsive, well designed and fun as it was 15 years ago.

I remember not buying Melee for the longest time because I could just bum a copy off of my friends, or just go over to their house. I finally bought my own copy around '07 or something like that, was like $32 + tax for Complete-In-Box. Glad I did that while I could

While Melee is a popular game, and it has seen a resurgence, you can also blame the market for adding even more pressure to prop up the price. Almost everything since 2010 has shifted upward in cost (greater than inflation can account for). There's been a huge resurgence for all kinds of systems from NES to the GC. This "wave" came in, and suddenly "retro" games started lurching up across the board. It hasn't hit Nintendo's portables nearly as hard (Pokemon is an exception, when GO came out, suddenly Red and Blue cart-only are worth $90 a pop instead of $15-$25...) but it's building up.

It's not just Melee that hit the $50+ mark as an average for CIB, though. Off the top of my head, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, Skies of Arcadia: Legends go for $40-$75 (CIB or Loose). But there are some real "grails" out there like Phantasy Star Online 1&2 and Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (nearing approximately $100+ for Loose or CIB).

So yeah, game collecting can be serious business these days

It's a pain in the ass, that's what it is. It's turned about as ludicrous as car collecting. I don't plan on selling any of my games, but if I did, I'd be making some serious bucks. About a third of the SNES games I have I got from my cousin for free, and they're all pretty much the popular expensive ones like "DKC3, or Megaman X". I have about 50 SNES games, and because they probably average around $20 at this point (I had it at $15, but then I remembered R-Type III ) I'd be getting $1,000 for them all. Jesus Christ. That's not even including my NES, N64, or GameCube games, or any of the accessories either. I have to imagine the prices will start to go down at some point. The hipsters can't stay satisfied forever.

The NES and SNES market has basically gone to hell. It's the worst to collect for in my opinion. Prices have jumped across the board higher for those two systems than probably anything else. Makes sense given their popularity and iconic status though, and the fact that there were plenty of genuinely good games available. But someone really took a stick and whacked all the prices.



I think it's more about nostalgia than hipsters. I guess a lot of the people that created the initial demand around 2010 were 20 and 30 year-olds that suddenly had jobs, and suddenly had money to buy all the games they couldn't get as kids. Back 5-6 years ago, you could pick up tons of things for $5 or $10 easily, but when everyone started buying them, things got "worse" as far as price goes.

A number of people expect this bubble to burst. Prices will either stabilize or they'll fall, in my opinion; they can't go up indefinitely (one hopes at least). Personally, I'm just glad GB and GBA games are relatively sane (again, outside of Pokemon, but I already have all the Pokemon games I want). You can get most stuff easily for $10-$15, and truly "expensive" games like Fire Emblem, Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission barely break the $30 mark for loose. I've gotten pretty much everything I want for my GB and GBA library.