Nintendo has begun to file DMCA and Content ID takedowns against YouTube users who post tool-assisted speedrun videos.
http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-s-c ... 0152.phtml
I'd honestly thought they've already been doing this. One thing that I thought was ridiculous is that they took down any videos showcasing Splatoon hacks. I mean, what could they possibly say about that that they couldn't say about any other video? It's not like they can say piracy.
Also, does Google just blindly follow Nintendo or something? I mean, whenever Nintendo wants videos to be shut down for whatever silly reason, they are.
YouTube is a public broadcasting of images and sound that they created and own, so it seems to be technically within their right to assert copyright in these cases. Most game publishers/developers wouldn't do this, though, because they realize what a stupid decision it is.
Japan in general seems more strict about copyright policing than other countries. Being a creator myself, I understand how you want your stuff to be your own and for nobody to derive it without explicitly asking for your permission. I also understand that, with video games, there are situations where you may not want videos of your game being shared around youtube. For instance, a game that is heavily story-driven, such as To The Moon, may suffer from someone having a full playthrough of it, because it's largely a story (only very minor gameplay) and that's pretty much 90% of the content available right there for free.
However, you need to think about your fanbase. Mario is always about running and jumping. You can watch someone do it, but doing so isn't spoiling the game to the point where you gain nothing by obtaining it and playing it yourself. After all, you can watch how to beat each stage, but actually beating the stage yourself relies on your skill and ability. What is the harm of someone showing off their playthrough of your game under these circumstances, especially if it may convince someone to purchase it for themselves? (To clarify, if someone is interested in buying the game, someone's playthrough may push them over the edge to get it. Someone who only wants to watch would never have bought it anyway, so there's no lost sale.)
The problem is that I fully understand Nintendo's desire to control the distribution of their property, but I don't understand why they have such a strong desire to do so. Or another way to look at it, why does it bother them more, but it bothers me less?
On another note, I understand why they'd take down videos of Splatoon glitches. Splatoon is an MMO where the other players have an effect on others' enjoyment of the game, and these videos are basically "here's how to cheat", and they don't want it to become like Starcraft where cheating and exploiting game engine oversights is part of the game. The word for that is meta-gaming; playing the game by playing with the game, rather than playing the game the way it's "supposed" to be played. It's the reason I can't play AoE2 online ever again, so I can understand Nintendo wanting Splatoon to be free of that. However, once you patch the glitch, who cares?
Drag wrote:
For instance, a game that is heavily story-driven, such as To The Moon, may suffer from someone having a full playthrough of it, because it's largely a story (only very minor gameplay) and that's pretty much 90% of the content available right there for free.
Sounds like a fun game.
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On another note, I understand why they'd take down videos of Splatoon glitches.
No, I'm talking about actually manipulating the game, like changing the variable running speed, which is conveniently located in a textfile (somehow. Does the game actually parse the textfile to find something like "runspeed:" in ASCII? Why not just make it some kind of variable before compiling? Creating something that reads a textfile is more CPU intensive and just more hassle to program) in English. It's almost like they want people to mess with the game. Anyway, I'm not even sure it would work online, but I'm really not even sure how online works on that game because It's much slower than some other games I've played. I've heard that there isn't a central server that actually runs the game, but the server just connects you to a "partner". It seems that if your "partner" has a bad internet connection or lives on the other side of the world or something, the worse it is in that people teleport back and forth and can kill you instantly and take a bazillion hits before dying.
Anyway though, they didn't take down the videos for hacking the games, the took them down for copyright as an excuse? How about all 100+ of them here?:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZackScottGames/videosThat reminds me, the only reason I even bought a Wii U for that games is
because of gameplay videos. At first, I though it looked like the dumbest game ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPOSKnOftA Yes, it does show off the gameplay (sort of) but I was way too focused on what they where "singing" than anything. (Am I the only one who initially thought this game wasn't made by Nintendo? I thought it just was about one of the 3 3rd party game exclusively for the Wii U.)
Anyway, what do you have to say about that Nintendo?
This is really random, but am I the only one who had thought of the Incredibles when first seeing the game? Actually, apparently not:
Espozo wrote:
Also, does Google just blindly follow Nintendo or something? I mean, whenever Nintendo wants videos to be shut down for whatever silly reason, they are.
In order to preserve its safe harbor under 17 USC 512, YouTube has to act on all plausible notices of claimed infringement.
Technical discussion of the merits of putting configuration of a game for a modern platform in a text file continues in this topic.
Youtube is currently like the "wild west" of copyright law. If your video gets a "contentID" match, they can have it removed immediately with no moderation or further verification of the claim. If the victim wants to contest that removal, they have to file a dispute - which comes straight to the person who filed the original claim and they get to immediately reject it without even reading whatever appeal you wrote to them. Simply attempting to appeal the initial claim will result in a copyright strike to your account if you didn't have one already, three strikes and Youtube will probably delete your account. Even one strike removes several privileges (like uploading videos over 10 minutes - effectively destroying an account that uploads TASes immediately).
Technically speaking, you can appeal the decision AGAIN, but then you have to get a lawyer and be prepared to go to court, and even if you do you WILL still lose.
TL;DR: As a victim of a copyright claim, just fucking give up. They win, you lose, end of story. You cannot fight back even if you're in the right. Take it from someone who knows first-hand.
Just hold out for a new black-market unprosecutable version of Youtube to emerge; it's our only hope for the future of the internet.
Yes this pisses me off, big whoop wanna fight about it?
Khaz wrote:
three strikes and Youtube will probably delete your account. Even one strike removes several privileges (like uploading videos over 10 minutes - effectively destroying an account that uploads TASes immediately).
Is there anyway to have a strike removed? Does it eventually just go away if you do nothing wrong?
Khaz wrote:
TL;DR: As a victim of a copyright claim, just fucking give up. They win, you lose, end of story. You cannot fight back even if you're in the right. Take it from someone who knows first-hand.
I'm hoping it wasn't by Nintendo...
Espozo wrote:
Is there anyway to have a strike removed? Does it eventually just go away if you do nothing wrong?
If you wait at least one year (sometimes more than that), it does go away, assuming you complete Youtube's excruciatingly-condescending "Copyright School" immediately every time. A year is a very long time to wait on the internet.
Espozo wrote:
I'm hoping it wasn't by Nintendo...
It wasn't. This all happened on an alt account that has nothing to do with gaming, for the record. Had one strike from a band I like's parent company and one from FOX, and now there's advertising on everything else I uploaded there thanks to Hasbro. I want to just delete the account and take down everything I ever did. Nothing pisses me off more than someone else getting paid for work I did when I don't get a penny for it.
Back on topic though, claiming copyright on scenes out of videogames is absolutely ridiculous. That footage existing on youtube is basically free advertising for them and they're stupid if they take it down. People who don't want plot spoiled will simply not watch the spoilers. And if your game is entirely nothing but plot and you get the same value out of watching it on Youtube as you would out of playing it yourself then WHY IS IT A GAME AND NOT A MOVIE?
*grumble ramble growl*
Come on, Youtube is just a platform like many others. It's not like it's the end of the world or anything.
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Technically speaking, you can appeal the decision AGAIN, but then you have to get a lawyer and be prepared to go to court, and even if you do you WILL still lose.
Go to court for a Youtube account ? That'd be a completely idiotic waste of time and money, when you can just use another service or create your own by setting up your server somehow.
Bregalad wrote:
Come on, Youtube is just a platform like many others. It's not like it's the end of the world or anything.
Yeah, and google is "just a search engine". They're a fucking monopoly, but that's not even the point. The moment anybody else starts to threaten google's lead, they will be sued into submission until they become exactly the same pile of shit that Youtube is today. It's money, man, and money has no mercy or decency. No matter who wins, we get fucked. That's why we have copyright law - not to protect the creator but to protect the profitability of the corporation that owns them.
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Go to court for a Youtube account ? That'd be a completely idiotic waste of time and money, when you can just use another service or create your own by setting up your server somehow.
That was my exact point: You'd be an idiot to try to fight it in court, therefore they win by default. The only reason they HAVE that secondary appeal process is so they can put the blame on you and say "Well you COULD have fought harder, so clearly you didn't care that much".
Yes you can create your own service, but that's like saying you're free to create your own stock market. Technically you can, but it's pointless because nobody else will ever use it or know it exists. We are stuck with whatever society as a whole adopts as the norm.
I could rant or argue all day but the bottom line remains the same: Are you rich? No? Well then you get fucked over, end of story. We live in a capitalist world, where those with piles of money fuck over those without. That is all you need to know about life, the universe, and everything.
Sorry to go full-blown angry jerk, but, the world out there just really sucks sometimes.
So wait, are let's players who never use mods or TAS at any risk? Or is Nintendo just trying to make people hate them?
nicklausw wrote:
So wait, are let's players who never use mods or TAS at any risk?
Well, If they are, Nintendo must be blind because this is the first thing that comes up on YouTube after searching "Splatoon".
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(Who the hell would want to watch 100+ videos of a guy repeatedly playing the same game?)
nicklausw wrote:
is Nintendo just trying to make people hate them?
It seems like it.
Khaz wrote:
if your game is entirely nothing but plot and you get the same value out of watching it on Youtube as you would out of playing it yourself then WHY IS IT A GAME AND NOT A MOVIE?
You already know how I feel about this.
This is ultimately an advantage of PC gaming over Nintendo consoles: PC game publishers tend to be more tolerant of modding offline games and non-commercial public performance than Nintendo is.
tepples wrote:
PC game publishers tend to be more tolerant of modding offline games and non-commercial public performance than Nintendo is.
Isn't everyone?
Nintendo isn't the only one:
This really upset me when I heard about it. Here is my opinion.
For me its all about the changing technology in our world.
Remember when TV was only in black and white and then finally they were able to make color TV's? When color TV's came out did anyone ever want to watch a black and white TV? Mostly likely not. That's because you could easily see the upgrade. Who would go out and buy a new black and white TV at the store when color ones are available? Thus you get a situation where the old product becomes abandoned.
Similar situations can be seen with the upgrade from NES to SNES back in the 90's. I remember that when the SNES came out almost nobody cared to play NES games at all. Many of my friends traded in all their NES stuff just to get an SNES. The mentality was, out with the old and in with the new.
The fact that Nintendo still thinks that their old NES and SNES games are worth protecting is ridiculous. They as a company already made their money when they originally sold the product. They are protecting old vintage abandoned software that the vast majority of the population deems as irrelevant.
When you go to rom sites and you see that they have all of the roms from other companies available except nintendo then you know something is out of place. The other companies know that with many products when you make something and sell it that's the time when you are most likely to make the most money off of it and then it pretty much becomes abandoned due to not being relevant anymore.
Super Mario World, as amazing as it is cannot hold up against current triple A games, but Nintendo apparently still thinks it does and that's is what is wrong with their mentality.
If you are a company who can only survive in the business world on old software that you produced over 20 years ago then you need to get a new business model.... seriously what a joke.
Also as a company you have to be nice to your fans, because without your fans you have no business. Who cares if someone made a remake of Bomb Bomb Battlefield in HD for SM64. Seriously who freaking cares, oh apparently Nintendo cares. A company who shuts down fan projects that are not for profit and pose no threat is insecure and personally it makes me not want to support them.
As for TAsers, many speedrunners spend years working on their runs to make them as good as they are and then Nintendo sh*ts on them and pulls down their videos? What a bunch of crap. They should be embracing them and handing out awards and such or at least give them recognition for their accomplishments.
Instead of Nintendo wasting all this energy and resources on a bunch of BS they should be doing what they need to be doing and that is making excellent games. That's all they should do is make outstanding games. If they do that then they will have their profits and not have to worry about protecting some old game that is less than 1 megabyte in size.
Its a bunch of crap and it may actually blow up in their face one day with a bunch of angry fans.
I'd have agreed with you fully 10 years ago, but today there is a big comeback for retro games, so I guess it's just natural Nintendo cares as much. They're just protecting their interests : With the virtual console and other retro products they're making profit and this is endangered by emulation. Nothing wrong with that even if that means going against our interests.
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Also as a company you have to be nice to your fans, because without your fans you have no business.
It's their decision to favour a particular branch of their fans (those buying hard copies) rather than another (the ones that downloads roms and emulators, and hacks them). We are none to juge whenever that decision is good or not, because we are absolutely not neutral, reperenting only a very particular (and minourity) branch of "their fans".
Personally I have stopped completely buying any video game products 3 years ago for reasons totally unrelated to this debate. Since we (the people who download roms/emulators) are already either completely or almost out of business with them (since Nintendo don't profit from sales of used hardware/cartridges), it hurts them less to hurt that particular type of buisness and expanding on the mainstream business rather than the other way around. If you want to continue to run a company, you have to please to the majority, and nobody cares about minorities.
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I'd have agreed with you fully 10 years ago, but today there is a big comeback for retro games, so I guess it's just natural Nintendo cares as much.
In my opinion if Nintendo actually cared about retro games then why haven't they actually made a new game for the NES or SNES or N64. Honestly I even think for like the 20th anniversary of some of these old systems they should make a special retro game for that system celebrating it.
If Nintendo made a new game for an old retro console I would most likely buy it for nostalgic reasons, but have they done this? The answer is a clear NO as they are NOT interested in retro games and only interested in making MONEY off their old products.
Nintendo did make the expanded version of Donkey Kong with the cement pie factory. It's also making retro style games on its newer platforms, such as Super Mario Maker. But otherwise, it's like asking why Disney is vigorously enforcing copyright in the original Mickey trilogy (Plane Crazy, The Gallopin' Gaucho, and Steamboat Willie), up to the point of allegedly bribing the U.S. Congress (in conjunction with the Gershwin estate) to delay the films' entry into the public domain, while not making new black-and-white cel-animated short films with what is now considered lo-fi audio.
tepples wrote:
Super Mario Maker
Am I the only one who has negative feeling about this game? I mean, this is 20 years late. I guess you could say better late than never, but there have been rom editors made for these games for ages. (I was about 10 years old when I first started messing with these kinds of games in editors, and I had no problem, so the easiness factor isn't an issue.) Additionally, although you can't do something that breaks the limitations of the system (like make Bowser 128x128 pixels large on the NES,) you're able to do
more if you know what you're doing. (Although this is where you need to know things.) Although terrible, I've seen people make custom bosses and enemies in SMW, and I've seen plenty of custom tilesets, some better than others, but often still good. I don't care if it comes with 100 levels, I still think it's ridiculous that it's going for $60 when I could possibly make even better Super Mario levels for free. The only legit thing about this game is that you can play other people's levels, but I'm sure they're bad.
You have to be kidding me... The damn thing's even sold at Walmart! I had to go all the way to BestBuy to get my Splatoon Bundle, and if you know where I live, I can assure you it isn't very close by. You know what, my unreasonable dislike for Super Mario Maker is probably linked to the fact that it's now overshadowing Splatoon, or at least Nintendo isn't paying as much attention to it, although I know it's older.
You know, this is going to sound like ridiculous speculation (because it is) but do you think Super Mario Maker is Nintendo's answer to all the "illegal" roms and rom editors? I mean clearly, with the abundance of them, people have clearly wanted it. (And we're well aware of Nintendo's oddly extreme hate for this kind of stuff...) I just don't see how it took Nintendo so long to figure that out.
Espozo wrote:
I mean, this is 20 years late.
Two major reasons this didn't happen 20 years ago:
1. Internet connectivity and networking is an integral part of this game.
2. It really needs a modern CPU to handle all the unreasonable piles of crap that are necessary to allow to make the tool easy to use, interesting and flexible.
Anyhow, I think Mario Maker is actually quite wonderful.
Don't expect any worthwhile "offline" content, though. Yes, there is ~100 pre-made sample levels, but they're all just little demonstrations. If you want a real Mario campaign, get one of those instead. This game is entirely about making strange things and seeing what other people have made.
Espozo wrote:
tepples wrote:
Super Mario Maker
You know, this is going to sound like ridiculous speculation (because it is) but do you think Super Mario Maker is Nintendo's answer to all the "illegal" roms and rom editors? I mean clearly, with the abundance of them, people have clearly wanted it. (And we're well aware of Nintendo's oddly extreme hate for this kind of stuff...) I just don't see how it took Nintendo so long to figure that out.
I have the feeling that it is, too, especially after I saw how popular "Kaizo Mario" videos are with Japanese kids.
There are a ton of reasons why they made Mario Maker now:
1. Modern hardware is finally capable of simulating hundreds of onscreen objects easily. Previous generations would have had to put lots and lots of restrictions on the user when creating. (I can't imagine how many "never do this, or the game will break" rules there were when creating SMB3 levels.)
2. With modern internet connectivity and networking, the social capabilities of this game are tremendous compared to what we would have had in the past.
3. Game is a good use case for the Wii U pad's stylus input.
4. Games that depend heavily on online interaction have stronger anti-piracy, and a slow expiration as users eventually dwindle.
5. Timed marketing for Super Mario Bros. 30th anniversary. (Did they throw a party for regular Mario Bros. 30th a few years ago?)
6. The recent success of Minecraft sets a very strong commercial example for other companies to follow, making "sandbox" games with massive amounts of user generated content shared online. Many, many companies are currently hard at work making "the next minecraft" right now, and Nintendo is no exception.
7. Nintendo has always been aware of the rom-hacking scene, and the public interest in it. Just because they have a harsh stance on copyright doesn't mean that they don't like the public interest in modding itself. Mario Maker is their attempt to finally make money off this interest.
Perhaps the question was why N didn't do this a generation ago. Point and click was also a good use case for the Wii Remote's pointer, and things like Mario Improvement and Lunar Magic ran on roughly Wii-class PC hardware. Furthermore, Sony beat N to the console platformer level editor with LittleBigPlanet.
I think if anything it'll make kids interested in designing video games without all the harsh realities of actually programming, and maybe the interest of homebrewing will grow. Maybe the door to what's currently a pretty niche interest will widen.
rainwarrior wrote:
1. Modern hardware is finally capable of simulating hundreds of onscreen objects easily. Previous generations would have had to put lots and lots of restrictions on the user when creating. (I can't imagine how many "never do this, or the game will break" rules there were when creating SMB3 levels.)
Well, I could
sort of imagine this on the SNES (using a vram and palette finder and other stuff. Certainty not the regular SMW engine) but I wouldn't think the N64 and beyond would have any trouble.
rainwarrior wrote:
With modern internet connectivity and networking, the social capabilities of this game are tremendous compared to what we would have had in the past.
Oh boy.
rainwarrior wrote:
5. Timed marketing for Super Mario Bros. 30th anniversary. (Did they throw a party for regular Mario Bros. 30th a few years ago?)
I find the fact that this year's the 20th anniversary of DKC2 to be more exciting.
rainwarrior wrote:
6. The recent success of Minecraft sets a very strong commercial example for other companies to follow, making "sandbox" games with massive amounts of user generated content shared online. Many, many companies are currently hard at work making "the next minecraft" right now, and Nintendo is no exception.
Isn't Minecraft (hopefully) on the decline at this point? Or maybe it's just that I'm a sophomore in high school and the people who have played it are tired of it / "outgrown" it. I just thought it was really popular around 2012 - 2013, even though I'd heard of it before and after (obviously).
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Yes! Just continue going down...
rainwarrior wrote:
they have a harsh stance on copyright
Hey, you know what that reminds me of? This page in the instruction booklet I own for the Super Gameboy:
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"Please destroy any illegal copies that may come into your possession"...
tepples wrote:
Perhaps the question was why N didn't do this a generation ago. Point and click was also a good use case for the Wii Remote's pointer, and things like Mario Improvement and Lunar Magic ran on roughly Wii-class PC hardware. Furthermore, Sony beat N to the console platformer level editor with LittleBigPlanet.
Asking why they
didn't do it earlier seems a little like the problem of trying to
prove that something doesn't exist. I'm sure they've had the idea for this kind of game for a long, long time, but at any given moment they only had finite resources to spend on a finite number of projects.
To know why they didn't make this game in 2005, you have to exhaustively look at all the things they
did release in 2005, and speculate why Nintendo might have thought they were a better bet than Mario Maker.
When doing this, you should also probably come up with a speculative cancelled game for every one they did release (I believe at least 50% of software projects are cancelled and never released, Nintendo has plenty of skeletons in its graveyard). You've also got to wonder if any of their unreleased projects were in fact earlier iterations of Mario Maker. They may very well have been chipping away at this for many years.
They may even have wanted to release a game like this 10 years ago, and failed for reasons unrelated to the viability of the project. There are many, many factors, internal and external, that can kill a game in development. Bad management. Personal problems. External financial pressures. Unexpected death of a key project member. etc. etc.
Asking why a game doesn't exist is a much, much more difficult question than asking why one does.
Espozo wrote:
rainwarrior wrote:
1. Modern hardware is finally capable of simulating hundreds of onscreen objects easily. Previous generations would have had to put lots and lots of restrictions on the user when creating. (I can't imagine how many "never do this, or the game will break" rules there were when creating SMB3 levels.)
Well, I could
sort of imagine this on the SNES (using a vram and palette finder and other stuff. Certainty not the regular SMW engine) but I wouldn't think the N64 and beyond would have any trouble.
You could, in theory, make some kind of "mario maker" on any platform. There were plenty of
Construction Set games over the years that can probably give you some idea of how it would behave, and maybe Sim City and its related game series' are a good indication of the way heavy-simulation gameplay works on various platforms over the years.
My argument is only that it's much easier than ever before, making it an appealing prospect right now (combined with the other factors I listed, and probably others).
Hopefully Mario Maker will actually increase the interest in hacking nintendo games, thus pissing off nintendo even more. hahaha
I personally want full control over a game that I decide to make. If I want to change the graphics then I should be able to. If I want to code custom enemies then I should be able to.
I personally think Nintendo should go a step further and sell development kits where you can make a full game easily. That would be the way to go. Once you are done with your game submit it to Nintendo and if they approve you get to sell it on the online store.
Give the power of development to anyone.
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The answer is a clear NO as they are NOT interested in retro games and only interested in making MONEY off their old products.
Perhaps the same could be said of ALL companies.
(Yes this is a reference to SOTN)
Erockbrox wrote:
I personally think Nintendo should go a step further and sell development kits where you can make a full game easily. That would be the way to go. Once you are done with your game submit it to Nintendo and if they approve you get to sell it on the online store.
Nintendo does
sell devkits to financially stable companies that have released a substantial game on another platform. In 2011, it even dropped the requirement that a company have a separate office.
tepples wrote:
I personally think Nintendo should go a step further and sell development kits where you can make a full game easily. That would be the way to go. Once you are done with your game submit it to Nintendo and if they approve you get to sell it on the online store.
I don't think the average 6 year old who is playing Mario Maker is going to be able to do that...
However, They're still able to make custom graphics and
maybe code simple objects if you're working with something like this:
I, however, cannot stand it. Once you try to do something beyond making your character jump twice as high, it totally falls apart and coding in assembly becomes easier. (Like Basic, from what I've heard.) I tried to put my XBone to use, but I soon found out there is none. :/
Erockbrox wrote:
Hopefully Mario Maker will actually increase the interest in hacking nintendo games, thus pissing off nintendo even more. hahaha
Erockbrox wrote:
Hopefully Mario Maker will actually increase the interest in hacking nintendo games, thus pissing off nintendo even more. hahaha
I certainly do not hope so. There is already hundred and hunders of low quality Super Mario World hacks on RHDN and it causes problems as they monopolize the approving queue, I certainly don't want to see this problem increased even more.
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There is already hundreds and hundreds of low quality Super Mario World hacks
This is exactly my opinion of the the Super Mario World level editor (Lunar Magic, I think it's called). And level editors in general.
Making hard tasks more accessible to the general public through "maker" tools has this very undesirable effect of making untalented people think they can do anything. I'm not saying everyone should be awesome from the get go, but they should have the common sense to tell personal accomplishments from a product worth releasing.
They are also taking down ROM hacks in particular, SMW.
I've migrated to Dailymotion where the search system isn't biased or uses some stupid SEO algorithm to make popular users more popular and lesser users lower.
Besides, Nintendo will ONLY do YouTube takedowns, because they are blind to everything else, like most other companies in this world.
(also ignore those bot/idiot on there that makes 1000 uploads a month under many accounts all from YouTube videos)