Is this what I think it is?

I just got done adding SRAM to my SMB Special hack when I found this symbol on level 8-2...What the hell is this!? I really hope it's not what I'm thinking it is or else I'll have to decline any further work on this game. --ShaneM, the Master of ASM

That's seriously creepy. I mean, it pretty much looks like that; what else could it be? Why put a random shape like that at the end of a water level? --ShaneM

EDIT: They probably didn't put it like you did because only so many objects can be placed vertically on the same axis without overload.

Well, the Swastika was originally supposed to be a peace sign, but, you know... It's pretty much only associated with Nazis now, and if someone puts a swastika in a game now, they probably don't mean peace.

Yeah. I think by 1986 it was considered an anti-Semitic symbol, no? I'm not sure of Japanese customs, nor the people at Hudson who worked on this game but I think the meaning is clear. Unless this is something else completely unrelated. If so, what could it be? Anyway, I've halted progress on this game and will instead release an SMB1 SRAM patch for the NES.

Personally, I know Nintendo themselves would never make anything like this. To hell with Hudson (2012), and good riddance. This game is full of symbolism such as "LS" found on one stage and "HUDSON" on another. I conclude that people only desire this game because it's considered "lost". But really, it's not so interesting. I only desired it for the new levels. --ShaneM, the Master of ASM

That isn't a swastika. Look closely at the symbol. *sighs* I wish people doing stuff involving Japanese would... fuck, never mind, I'll just leave this here. Read it.

http://www.tofugu.com/2012/03/21/why-ar ... -in-japan/

I'll go with 'no'.

The Manji/Swastika/Hakenkreuz('hooked cross') remains, afaik, associated with eternal life in the East; the Nazi appropriation of the symbol and stigma did not really propagate back.

Also, the National-sozialisten-hakenkreuz is always tilted so that edges are diagonal, is it not?

(Frankly, it's also close to the Generic Currency Symbol: ¤)

Zelda 1, Level 3: Manji. Though, left-curling arms. The Nazis used right-curl, along with being turned, as far as I know.

e:beaten with a more thorough explanation-link

I guess as being an American I interpreted the symbol as my half (the Western hemisphere) of the world understands it. (I also take it that most of the people who would be playing my work would also most likely be Westerners, hence possibly interpreting it as I did, unless they have understanding of the Japanese culture.)

I must admit that I find it strange that the original PC88 version of this game is entirely in English (even other symbols in the game using the Latin alphabet). I'm still not sure that I feel comfortable continuing this work even though you are probably right. But that's my personal choice.

Thanks for your input and taking your time to share with me.



I think you're right on the Zelda thing. I find it hard to believe that they changed religious things like bibles and what not when localizing this game to the Western world but would leave that dungeon the same if it were such a horrific symbol. --ShaneM, the Master of ASM

English is a very popular language in Japan, for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me. It's also a lot easier to fit recognizable Latin in a small space than recognizable kana.

Quite possibly because it's the 'lingua franca' (universal, common tongue) as far as business and entertainment goes worldwide? That would be my guess.

English is also taught along with Hindi in India, my heritage.

It looks like a piece of Pythagorean tiling to me.

Well, it is very important to remember that originally when they were founded in the early 20s nazism and other fascist movements (including many that failed miserably) were supposed to bring eternal peace... needless to say this was pure bullshit.

Not only japan, pretty much every non-english speaking country.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/3/31/Level3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20090802051030

You really shouldn't be so quick to be offended. Sometimes something is just a coincidence. Sometimes something just doesn't mean anything. Sometimes something means something other than what you think it means.

As far as swastikas go, although they're typically associated with Nazism, I prefer to see them in terms of their original intended meaning.

Looks a lot more like a Ninja Star than a swastika.

Since it's in a liquid (water) like that, it just reminded me of a turbo booster turbine...

http://www.google.com/search?q=turbo+bo ... d=0CA8QpwU

Honestly, I can't be the only one annoyed about how they ruined that symbol, especially considering how trivial it's to make without trying (especially these days when dealing with low resolution, it's a freaking 5×5 twister).

Also I swear it doesn't look like a swastika to me either, it doesn't have twisting arms o.O

I wonder what they were thinking when they added that symbol in at the end of the water segment 8-2? I mean, it's not even halfway through the level (just the end of the water part). It's not even anywhere near or at 8-4. So the logic behind understanding why that symbol is there must be to examine the message the game designer what trying to get across there. Thought?

Here is a map of the full level: http://www.mariouniverse.com/images/maps/x1/smb/8-2.png

The only logic I can see is that Bowser is warning Mario that his doom may be (falsely) imminent (hence used in a negative sense)? --ShaneM

I see a 404 there （　・・）

Hmm. It worked for me. But here, try this attachment.

I don't see any reason to question the design of the blocks. It just looks like a pattern of the author's choice. Rephrased: people see what they want to see.

The only reason it doesn't look the way Espozo did it earlier is because if the sign was completely done, it wouldn't show because only so many objects can be on the same Y axis. I really can't see what else that shape could represent. I don't see it as a trademark or mascot of any sort belonging to Hudson.

I'm sort of offended by the symbol because I know a lot of Jewish people and they are really smart people. What Hittler did to them was so cruel that I can't even look at that symbol without scorning it. I've seen pictures of children that were being experimented on by Hitler and they were so skinny that you can literally see all of their bones. That's why I quit this project. But I understand it can also have other meanings, too. --ShaneM

Comparing those blocks to a swastika is like saying that a column of blocks looks like a dick.

It's not a swastika. Not even slightly.

Then please tell me what it is. I think it's clear it was meant to be a design of some sort at the end of the water segment. I can only see a swastika. What is it, then?

It's just a pattern of blocks with 90 degree rotational symmetry. Why would it have to represent anything?

Does the rectangle of blocks to the left with coins and seaweed hanging off represent something?

I don't understand the need to assign any representational meaning to it at all. It's just a pattern, created to fill up space because the designer was bored.

Like I said, I think you're seeing what you want to see. Stop being offended (NSFW).

I've seen lots of things in video games (e.g. shurikens, fireballs, etc.), and in art (see tepples' post), that look similar to what's depicted. I see no "secret Nazi paraphernalia".

How do you feel about 卍PSY幽記 (Manji: Psy Yuuki) (which Yuzo KOSHIRO composed the music for), or even closer to home, what Bionic Commando was actually about?

This is all pretty ridiculous. We're a pretty diverse bunch here (and on #nesdev), but so far I think there's pretty much universal agreement that the block layout depicted is not offensive, nor was it ever intended to be.

So to answer your question -- which is in the Subject of this thread -- no, it is not what you think it is. It's either just a cute layout of blocks, or is intended to depict a manji (卍). It is not a Nazi swastika. I'd link you the incredibly informative Wikipedia article on the origin of the symbol, except I'm not sure you'd actually read it, simply because the article is titled "Swastika". The symbol has an amazing (positive) history -- Hitler's use of it is just one (very negative) part of history. And while I condemn what happened during World War II like most people, I don't think the world is filled with rainbows and unicorns.

Put down your gloves, open your mind, and read about the history of something. It sounds ridiculous or cliche, I know, but broaden your horizons a bit. Mario didn't write Mein Kampf.

Are you okay?

I didn't see anything even vaguely resembling a swastika until I scrolled down to the second post, but that was clearly a manji and not a swastika (ignorant people don't know the difference, though).

Inhale, count to ten, then slowly exhale. Have a cup of tea and relax. Everything is fine.

If it reminded me of anything, it would be a variant houndstooth stitching pattern.

Really though, it just reminds me of a tired employee who has a lot of levels to make before they can go home.

You're right.

Hey, you never know... ;-) (Yes this is a real game / real title screen, but I'm just linking to it given the context + to make people laugh)

That'd be 4-Player Strike Mahjong (Wikipedia; NesCartDB), where the symbol for "player" resembles what a player thinks with.

I'm pretty sure the symbol just means "person", but can be interpreted as "player" since it's being used in the context of a game.

It just looks like a shape to me.


Oh no, a shape with no context. How terrible and offensive. The world is going to end now.


Oh my goodness, I'm so offended by this sword, and/or this St. Peter cross, and/or this lowercase t, and/or this anti-god symbol, and/or...

Oh gracious me, a football team named after potatoes? A mascot that looks like some kind of person caricature, in a sport full of mascots that look like caricatures and anthropomorphic animals? That's it, shut everything down.

I really don't understand society sometimes.

I'm aware the character in question is 人 (ren2 in Chinese, jin/hito/nin in Japanese) means person (in this context, player). I guess 5 years of Mandarin pays off. :P I'm under the impression the title screen is the way it is to minimise CHR usage.

I was replying to tepples... not that he said anything wrong, but since he didn't say the actual meaning of the symbol I figured I would.


Definitely, and the result was a horrendous title screen. I had trouble figuring other characters besides 人 (which I wouldn't have figured out if it weren't for the number 4).

Back to Mario, I don't think that thing looks like a swastika at all... a swastika is made from bent lines coming from the center, and that thing underwater doesn't even have lines. But even if it was a swastika, would you suddenly stop enjoying a game you always liked just because of that? Even if someone (the level designer) sneaked it in there, that doesn't mean the whole game condones Nazism. It would just be a shape showing up in one part of one level that didn't affect the game in any way. Would you think less of Disney's The Little Mermaid just because you noticed there's a dildo hiding in the castle in the cover art?

It's sad that some people are so sensitive with stuff that aren't meant to be, though it's understandable that they may be offensive in some sense due to cultural difference or other historical reasons.

I think Far East of Eden 2(also by Hudson) takes the cake here. The "offensive" symbol is everywhere, as it's in its title and in the main character's name, and its original opening can piss nations of people off. Too bad they removed the symbol from the opening in the remakes(though it's still used in the text).

I think it's good to be emotional (to an extent); that's what separates healthy humans from robots. It's also good to have a balance of logic and reason, too.

Though you are right on the cultural thing. My observation of the American culture seems to be that they are overall very blunt and somewhat more cold (not sure if that's the right word). Being a first generation American,
I'm sort of exposed to 2 different cultures; one in my house and one on the outside. Since I was raised by my native culture and exposed to American lifestyle, I can sort of relate to both, though these observations about the American lifestyle are my opinions. Maybe my sensitivity comes from my personality and the way I was raised. Though I still stand by what I believe about this game and won't release my fixes. --ShaneM

EDIT: I'll keep my word and release the SMB1 NROM patch with SRAM and my fixes from my FDS versions, though.

Well. Most of the games we're talking here aren't even the US version (or even exported to the west), and the use of such imaginary are very okay in the regions they're supposed to be sold, so there's no point in being so sensitive to them(unless they're extreme stuff like burning your country's flag or killing your country's president).

Unless the people didn't care and just import the games as-if without modification, or the localisation team overlooked something, if/when these games were to be localised to other regions such content would most probably be changed anyway, so they're not supposed to be seen by potentially offended groups of people.

Well, hopefully this will be my last post on this, but I will also release my source code when I release the mentioned SMB1 NROM with fixes from my edited post above. I think it's only fair to all the people. Also, in the SMB Special ROM on RHDN, 0x$F410 in ROM has over 2000 bytes of free space so my code can be imported at any time with simple JSRs *hint hint*

The music bank has free space that I used for the skid sound at ROM 0x8D3A. I just added these routines to get it to work at the end:



That's it. I'll share my SRAM code for saving high scores when I release the SMB1 NES patch for it along with all bug fixes. --ShaneM, the Master of ASM

EDIT: Oh yeah, since I did JMPs, at the end of the bne in ContinueSkidSfx, I changed the bne to either branch to a JMP or skip it and do a different JMP back to the main routine. For the codes ProOnGroundActs etc., I just did JSRs and then RTSs.

Man it's incredible, it really looks like a dick. I can't see how it could look like a "jin" kanji to any extent.

About the original image, not only it looks like no swastika, but it doesn't even look like a maji. The inside is a filled up square, with 4 bricks in the sides. A maji only have branches, no solid shape in the inside. So I really think it does not look like a maji. And I agree with everything that has been said... other that it is not even a maji.


Totally agree, although again, the reasl swastika is 45° rotated and cannot be made with a 5x5 twister.

Ironically the same thing didn't happen with the 5-branch star, communist symbol. People can just use them whathever they want, probably because it is so widely used for other purposes that nobody cares.

I even saw once a guy walking with an "USSR" t-shirts with all the symbols and everything, as this was normal. Now imagine someone with a "third-reich" t-shirt... there's no doubt he would be arrested immediately.

I am offended and refuse to play another Mario game for as long as I live.

Your welcome!


Well, Doom.


Kind of like this?

The human form is actually a beautiful thing. Judging from these last few posts, I'd say the attention is on the male genitalia depicted by Espozo. Thing is, people are again lacking in imagination. In his mockup, the above part with blocks are the male genitalia, along with the four blocks making a square right above the pipe (forming the juevos). The pipe below can be interpreted as female genitalia. So really I think he drew a hermaphrodite rather than a "dick" alone. It is really creative if I do say so as nobody caught on to that.

But anyway, back on topic, I've pretty much gathered all I needed to from hearing everyone's opinion on this. I especially want to thank Koitsu for the useful links. Thanks to everyone else, also. --ShaneM

@espozo: That just looks like some flag for some country to me. I'm not ignorant though, it'd be harder to get away with that specific combination of shapes and colors (since it's pretty much an emblem at that point), versus just the swirly shape by itself.

Looks nothing like a Swastika.

Now, if you want to be offended, look for Electric Retard in the Wayback Machine. Enjoy.

I'm not sure if I'm being a little petty about this or not. So what I'll do is cast a little vote. If I get 6 or more (positive) responses to this I'll continue and finish the project. If you post, please tell me why you would like this game fixed (with SRAM already finished). I ask for 6 or more because it will still be work to finish and I only want to continue if I have demand for it (though I personally don't want to continue it, I'll let it's fate rest in your hands). I'm also lacking source code, so all that's been accomplished has been done via hex editor. --ShaneM, the Master of ASM

There's already 207 hacks for SMB1 on romhacking.net alone.

If you count everything that is not on RHDN, then there is probably 6 time more. That should answer your question when it comes for "demand".

Then don't. Do whatever makes you happy, not what others want you to.