Due to how hard the game is, I ask myself how far everyone in there is able to go without using savestates nor unsing an emulator able to step frames (like VirtuaNES or Nintendulator), actually both options are needed for an human person to beat the game.
I'm pretty proud myslef to be able to reach the snake level without cheating. But the snake level itself is too much for me right now. Maybe with a lot of traiging.... ?
I should put a disclaimer that I can't really remember if I ever did this without using the "mild cheat" of starting with 5 lives by pressing down + A + B when starting the game, but I remember having completed the game without using warps back in the days. It's not all that hard if you devote the time needed.
On the other hand, getting through this game with two players seems next to impossible, since the game is A LOT harder with two players, even when both are fairly skilled and patient. Me and my girlfriend just completed it the last weekend, after several weekends devoted to it, half of which had us stuck at the Dark Queen's tower, and this was WITH a game genie "infinite lives"-cheat.
Additionally, we "sort-of" cheated through one of the middle passages at the dark queens tower by exploiting one of the game's many "pickup-bugs": let one player pick up the other, and make the red rhino eat up the picked-up player. The picked-up player will die, but the sprite remain attached at the head of the living player, who can then play on until he/she bites the dust as well.
Though we only did this trick at one passage which just seemed infinetely impossible to pull off with two players, since the trampoline platforms malfunctioned 9 times out of 10, not letting you get high enough, when two players were bouncing on top of them. I personally feel that the game was rushed to the ROM factory and wasn't throughly balanced in two-player mode when stamped for release.
We used a similar trick more extensively at level 8, where it lets both toads become immune to electicity.
These kind of bug exploits do present kind of an ethical gaming dilemma: when and when not is exploiting game bugs equal to cheating? Kind of a gray area, since many smaller bugs in NES games are just considered common knowledge of that game's functionality. :)
Bananmos wrote:
It's not all that hard if you devote the time needed.
You're kidding, I hope... Uh ?
About the 5 lives code, I just got surprised it didn't work any longer. Actually, I forgot to press down, only A+B so this will now allow me more depht with 5 lives.
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These kind of bug exploits do present kind of an ethical gaming dilemma: when and when not is exploiting game bugs equal to cheating? Kind of a gray area, since many smaller bugs in NES games are just considered common knowledge of that game's functionality.
This isn't cheating, unless it comes to have a really big impact (like someone pressing B 64 times on Rad Racer demo screen then press start to have the ending couldn't say he beat the game).
There is several glitches in Battletoads, but it is nothing compared to Castlevania II - Simon's Quest.
I didn't try 2 players mode, I actually not own the real card unfortunately and play with 2 player on an emulator is pure hell. Playing alone is sill fun.
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You're kidding, I hope... Uh ?
I'll just let you know that I consider the snake pit to be one of the easier levels in the game. Just wait 'til you get past that one and onto Volkmire's Inferno, where you'll be up against some REAL action... :)
The most insane level of them all IMHO opinion is the clinger-winger... and a living hell in two player mode, since the screen will scroll according to the leading toad's position, making it several times harder for the other toad to time his movement perfectly. (which you have to, since there are NO new start points that will forgive your mistakes) Me and my girlfriend spent 5-6 hours on that level in two-player mode before completing it.
Bananmos wrote:
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You're kidding, I hope... Uh ?
I'll just let you know that I consider the snake pit to be one of the easier levels in the game. Just wait 'til you get past that one and onto Volkmire's Inferno, where you'll be up against some REAL action...
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The snake level sure isn't hard, but there is always sprikes where you didn't except to, or when you think you were able to evade spikes you actually aren't.
I cannot even pass the first section of volkmire inferno without cheats. The last time I did it, I was framestepping the WHOLE race ! The same goes for the rat race section 3, where framestepping is absolutely NEEDED to beat the level.
The clinger winger is sure terrific, but I think the last level and the volkmire are both worse.
Nah, you don't need any silly framestepping in the rat race... but you do need to perfect your running skills, and take every chance you get to head-butt the rat so he'll lose an extra second or two.
Speaking of it... the rat race is one of the VERY FEW places where the game is actually easier in two-player mode, since a player will just fall through the floors when he/she can't keep up the pace with the other.
I highly recommend getting a real Battletoads cart... playing it in an emulator with slow-motion cheats doesn't do justice to history's greatest game ever. :)
Bananmos wrote:
I highly recommend getting a real Battletoads cart... playing it in an emulator with slow-motion cheats doesn't do justice to history's greatest game ever.
I'd like it too, but I cannot find any for now. If I see any, I'll get it for sure.
The game is sure one of the more fun and addictive action games I've played, but sometimes when you loose again and again it can become very anoying... But that won't stom you to retry several days laters, hehe.
I definitely think the inferno level is the toughest one of them. You pretty much have to memorize EXACTLY where all the openings are. The last time I played this game I was attempting to go through it with no warps, but whenever I got through the inferno, I just didn't have enough lives for the rest of the game
I'll have to give it another shot sometime soon.
As for scoring, you can actually max your score out on the level where you fight Robo-Manus. When you see one of the areas that shoot out those balls, you can stand there and have a turbo button held down for a long time ... 999,999 if I remember correctly.
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I definitely think the inferno level is the toughest one of them.
Of all the areas I love the speed levels with obstacles to avoid. There's so much subtlety in the design of them. They'll set up apparent patterns to get you thinking in a constrained manner, then break the pattern in some unexpected way so you'll crash.
blargg wrote:
Of all the areas I love the speed levels with obstacles to avoid. There's so much subtlety in the design of them. They'll set up apparent patterns to get you thinking in a constrained manner, then break the pattern in some unexpected way so you'll crash.
That's the exact description of Battletoads levels. They have the ability to do things just like you didn't except.
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The last time I played this game I was attempting to go through it with no warps, but whenever I got through the inferno, I just didn't have enough lives for the rest of the game
Because you are able to make your way trough the infreno and you complain about lacking lives ??!?!?!?!??!?!?
Each time I try the inferno I die before the first section to end, wasting all lives that wasn't taken by the riders rats at the begining of the level. I cannot even beat the first section without framestepping.
I try to totally forget thinking and just let my instinct trough the controller, wich is the only way to pass level 3, but that don't work with level 7.
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Is Battletoads harder than In The Groove?
Nope. Don't except anything to be harder than Battletoads.
... By the way, what is In the Groove ? lol.
well, i got to the revolution in about 38.51 minutes without dieing and no i did not use a cheating device or save states. Oh and got four hhits and ate 3 flys.the wookie hole was the hardest level. I just used a stop watch to keep track of time on each level.
I got to lvl 3 in 12 days...
donknotts wrote:
well, i got to the revolution in about 38.51 minutes without dieing and no i did not use a cheating device or save states. Oh and got four hhits and ate 3 flys.the wookie hole was the hardest level. I just used a stop watch to keep track of time on each level.
The revolution is the last stage, right ? You got it without cheat ?? Is that even possible ?
And you say the Wookie hole is the hardest level ??? It is pretty easy.
the reason the wookie hole is hadest is beause had trouble with is because the crow snip my wire and being busy fighting of plants it is impossible.
Killing the hawks before they cut your wire is sure easier to avoid all firewalls in the Volkfire Inferno or to race against the rat in level 9.
I think you're kind of the special type.
does anyone know of the warp codes?
Regarding the Rat Race:
There are tricks. If you can time it right (things have to be just so), you can punch the rate as you fall and he'll turn around. Usually this does more harm than good, but it can work out if you know what you're doing. You can also time it so the 3rd rat will hit those moving platforms at just the wrong time -- giving you an early substantial lead, making that 3rd section much easier.
The Rat Race is by FAR my favorite level in that game. The music, the feeling of urgency, everything about it is just awesome -- one of the few games that still gets my heart pumping when I play it.
Anyway -- I've pretty much mastered Battletoads. I can consistently go through it with no game overs (maxed out score of 999999 by Clinger Winger or earlier, usually, but I don't pay that much attention to my score). Not counting The Revolution and bosses, I'd say I die on average 5 times per runthrough (now that I think about it, that might even be a generous estimate -- it's probably more like 2 or 3). Revolution still gives me some trouble sometimes, and the Storm Trooper at the top of the Elevator shaft still kicks my ass now and then.
Never the 5-life code -- never warp -- never abuse savestates. ;D
EDIT -- Also...
I don't know if this has been mentioned -- but getting through the game with two players isn't virtually impossible -- it actually IS impossible. There's a fatal glitch in Clinger Winger where the second player cannot move and all and he'll just get killed by the spiral guy right as the level starts every time. I've gotten there with a friend a few times before (with heavy savestate abuse as my friend kind of sucks).
An online guy I know, Drag, experienced this problem as well and looked into it. Apparently each toad is given a counter that starts counting down every frame -- and the toad cannot move until that counter reaches zero. The problem is, the counter doesn't start counting until the toad gets to his Clinger thing -- and Zitz (second toad) doesn't get to his Clinger thing until several frames AFTER Rash (1P) gets to his -- so his timer is still counting down even after Rash, and the spiral enemy, are already on the move.
Mine's at the first level and 157 pts.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned -- but getting through the game with two players isn't virtually impossible -- it actually IS impossible. There's a fatal glitch in Clinger Winger where the second player cannot move and all and he'll just get killed by the spiral guy right as the level starts every time. I've gotten there with a friend a few times before (with heavy savestate abuse as my friend kind of sucks).
I remember reading something like this on the web at a time, but just put it off as BS, perhaps caused by some old low-quality emulator. Guess I was wrong then. :)
However, no such problem on the clinger-winger level is present on my PAL cart, so I suppose this is specific to the NTSC version? Which again makes me wonder which version was the first one, and which one is the port.
But so much for the NTSC Battletoads cart I own then. I think it will keep collecting dust even if I get myself an NTSC television set somehow. I can imagine the fury two people must feel after getting themselves to the clinger-winger level, only to see their effort overthrown by such a nasty bug.
So the PAL version works? I'll have to try that some day.
But for now I guess I can only just imagine the hellish difficulty of the Revolution with 2 players. I have a hard enough time with it on 1 player.
Bananmos wrote:
Which again makes me wonder which version was the first one, and which one is the port.
I also wonder about that. I think the PAL version is the original, because Rare is a british game company, and the games doesn't use tricky sanline stuff in the PAL version - only in the NTSC version.
Also, there seems to have more glitches in the NTSC version (while the PAL still have glitches).
In level 3, when you fall in the lava at the first section there is a glitch only in PAL, when your toad reapars there is lava falling from it (it's hard to explain). I did only show this under emulation, but I doubt emulators are wrong when it comes to sprite rendering.
Bregalad wrote:
...and the games doesn't use tricky sanline stuff in the PAL version - only in the NTSC version.
That's because the PAL NES has a lot more vblank time. Do you have any other evidence to back up the order of release?
Bregalad wrote:
Also, there seems to have more glitches in the NTSC version (while the PAL still have glitches).
In level 3, when you fall in the lava at the first section there is a glitch only in PAL, when your toad reapars there is lava falling from it (it's hard to explain). I did only show this under emulation, but I doubt emulators are wrong when it comes to sprite rendering.
What emulator are you using? (It should be Nestopia or Nintendulator.)