hello all,
I'am new in this forum and very happy to find it.
this day i want to make an proto card of titan warriors but shame on me it do not work ?
i take an Unrom donor card with an 27c1001 and wire :
bend up pins 1,2,24 and 31
solder pin 2 to hole 22 (A16)
solder pin 24 to GND (OE)
but i have black screen
any one have make it or have an idear about the mistake ?
lilou wrote:
I'am new in this forum and very happy to find it.
this day i want to make an proto card of titan warriors
Have you first practiced by making a proto card of some UNROM homebrew game?
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I'am new in this forum and very happy to find it.
See that my thread wasn't just pure speculation. People are actually HAPPY to find this forum for asking how to illegally make fake carts !
This forum is about NESDEV, not about making FAKE NES CARTS.
tepples wrote:
lilou wrote:
I'am new in this forum and very happy to find it.
this day i want to make an proto card of titan warriors
Have you first practiced by making a proto card of some UNROM homebrew game?
no never is it my first one ,but don't no if it can possible whis it game?
when you take a look at the rom ,you see Unrom prg 128kb ,chr ram 8kb and mirroring V
or may be i don't connect it correctly ?
can some one say me where connect eprom Vpp,Vcc ,PGM and A17 ?
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
I'am new in this forum and very happy to find it.
See that my thread wasn't just pure speculation. People are actually HAPPY to find this forum for asking how to illegally make fake carts !
This forum is about NESDEV, not about making FAKE NES CARTS.
i anderstand that but i just want play it on my hardware i thinks it's very good game and i'am sad it never come on nes
Bregalad, what's your problem with this guy trying to play it on hardware? Are you saying that he's lying about wanting to play it on his NES, and really wants to pass it off as a genuine prototype?
Maybe. A fake prototype could easily sell for $100.
Even if this is not his intensions, it's 100% illegal to make a fake cart of a copyrighted game, no matter if the game is very good or very bad.
So I don't see why we should have to tolerate the people regularly come here for that - because we don't want to help them doing anything illegal.
It doesn't look like this guy is going to develop an amazing home-brew anytime. Again he's just an example of yet another troll, we have dozen of others.
He can play it on hardware with the Power Pak if he really wants to.
blargg wrote:
Bregalad, what's your problem with this guy trying to play it on hardware? Are you saying that he's lying about wanting to play it on his NES, and really wants to pass it off as a genuine prototype?
no i just want to play it to my nes just that !
Bregalad wrote:
Maybe. A fake prototype could easily sell for $100.
Even if this is not his intensions, it's 100% illegal to make a fake cart of a copyrighted game, no matter if the game is very good or very bad.
So I don't see why we should have to tolerate the people regularly come here for that - because we don't want to help them doing anything illegal.
It doesn't look like this guy is going to develop an amazing home-brew anytime. Again he's just an example of yet another troll, we have dozen of others.
He can play it on hardware with the Power Pak if he really wants to.
i andestand your opinion but buy a powerpack just for this game it very expensive isnt it ?
Okay, let's figure problems on their source :
Who actually give you the idea to start to create fake carts ?
i see an video of this game on youtub and i what amazing by it game, later i make some search about it for buy one, i see nothing that why later i seach on google how to play it on nes i find the retrozone power pack but for this one game i think is more expensive.
and i see some word about unrom i make seach and i arrive an dev wiki :
http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/UxROM
lilou wrote:
no i just want to play it to my nes just that !
If you're not 1. writing software and testing compatibility with a mapper, or 2. trying to sell copies, then it might be cheaper in terms of your time just to play these games on a PowerPak. It might sound expensive at first, but time is money too: how much do you make an hour? And it'll let you play any other homebrews and dumped prototypes you come across.
Or hook a PC up to your TV and play on an emulator. This is even cheaper than a PowerPak, involving one cable ($10 VGA-to-VGA for an HDTV, or $40 VGA-to-composite for an SDTV), and a USB gamepad.
blargg wrote:
Bregalad, what's your problem with this guy trying to play it on hardware? Are you saying that he's lying about wanting to play it on his NES, and really wants to pass it off as a genuine prototype?
Bregalad wrote:
Maybe. A fake prototype could easily sell for $100. Even if this is not his intensions [...]
Just to be clear, you're coming down on him because he
might be planning this, even though he just as well might not be?
Quote:
it's 100% illegal to make a fake cart of a copyrighted game, no matter if the game is very good or very bad.
I thought copyright governed
distribution of works. By building a personal copy he isn't distributing the work to anyone.
Quote:
So I don't see why we should have to tolerate the people regularly come here for that - because we don't want to help them doing anything illegal.
I agree that we should not be assisting anyone with something that has no legal use.
Quote:
It doesn't look like this guy is going to develop an amazing home-brew anytime. Again he's just an example of yet another troll, we have dozen of others.
So you think he was
just posting in order to anger people, and is really not even making this cartridge?
Quote:
He can play it on hardware with the Power Pak if he really wants to.
Are you sure that's legal? It seems virtually identical to putting it on EPROM and soldering into a cartridge, from a copyright point-of-view. Besides, it might be more expensive for him, or he might want to make an actual cartridge.
I have my own objections to helping this guy. His initial posting is poorly organized. Maybe English isn't his native language, but that doesn't change the fact that there is going to be a barrier to understanding. He doesn't seem to be interested in learning more about NES development, so time spent helping him is not a very good investment. Since we have limited time, we should invest it where it gives the most benefit to the community. For example, we might spend the time working on the Wiki.
blargg wrote:
I thought copyright governed distribution of works.
Copyright also covers private reproduction, with some exceptions. From 17 USC 106:
US Congress wrote:
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords
The exceptions for reproducing and distributing are far less broad than those for reproducing and not distributing, which is where people get the idea that selling "is more illegal".
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I agree that we should not be assisting anyone with something that has no legal use.
Which is why I at least try to clothe it in trying to reproduce a homebrew first.
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He can play it on hardware with the Power Pak if he really wants to.
Are you sure that's legal?
Using a PowerPak and not distributing is no more or less legal than rewiring a board and not distributing. But the one thing you
can't do with a PowerPak is sell copies, which is "more illegal" because it is less likely to fall under an exception.
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Besides, it might be more expensive for him
Which is why I asked about wages and about other games that the OP might want to repro, so that I could determine which is more expensive in terms of time=money.
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I have my own objections to helping this guy. His initial posting is poorly organized. Maybe English isn't his native language
That's why I assume good faith with poor English on an English-only forum, except perhaps in a case with a comparable forum in another language.
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Since we have limited time, we should invest it where it gives the most benefit to the community. For example, we might spend the time working on the Wiki.
Answering questions on forums helps find areas where the wiki is lacking.
Who cares guys let it be, why get your thing in a knot.
Have you tried soldering pins 1-32-31 together with a little piece of wire I find sometimes this works like a charm.
I am surprised by answer, rather hard but good I have succeeds thank you marvelus10 and blargg for the other , if it to annoy you simply not answer.
But risk you to make quite a lot of people run away with of such reactions, tell your opinion once all right ,make 3 post it is too much!
lilou, don't worry, this was an issue that was primed to explode the next time someone posted something like you did. It's not your doing
ok thank you,
i play the game the last night but i have some glitch may be my 50 hz nes ?
it's posible to make the game run 60hz to 50 hz ?
lilou wrote:
I am surprised by answer, rather hard but good I have succeeds thank you marvelus10 and blargg for the other , if it to annoy you simply not answer.
But risk you to make quite a lot of people run away with of such reactions, tell your opinion once all right ,make 3 post it is too much!
Gee I wonder how many more games you'll want to reproduce so that you can play them "on your TV", when you could just buy the PowerPak and never have to reproduce any of them.
Seems like doing the way you're doing it will eventually run into a bunch of money -- unless...
It wasn't only you who is annoying, but the large mass of people who comes to ask questions similar to yours, when this have few to do with NESdev, but more with illegally faking cartridges.
As blarg says, the next one that was asking a similar thing was doomed. However, chances are that this will continue to happen again and again. What should I do then ? Ignore the post... I guess it's the best option.
I can't stress it enough that it's a BAD idea to help people to make fake cartridges, as this serves no purpose (if they can't buy the original they can play on emus or on the powerpak, illegaly for sure but without annoying anyone nor making this forum filled with illegal stuff), and people could illegally sell them for a lot of profit (not that all of them will, but at least a couple of people already did that)
@bregalad
ok but can you tell me why you making an path for ff to run 50 hz ?
if it's not for making your card ?
if you want to play ff you can play it on emu not?
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/455/
i admit you want to play it on nes why not for me ?
lilou wrote:
@bregalad
ok but can you tell me why you making an path for ff to run 50 hz ?
If I am reading through some typo's. I'd assume it's are you making a patch, but I just want to say NTSC games will work on PAL TV's, sometimes not the other way around, though.
3gengames wrote:
If I am reading through some typo's. I'd assume it's are you making a patch, but I just want to say NTSC games will work on PAL TV's, sometimes not the other way around, though.
Unless the games use hardcoded timed code, in which case they need to be converted.
Anyway, I think lilou was trying to confront Bregalad, saying that since he made a PAL patch that meant he also wanted to put the game on a cartridge, so why can he do it but not others?
I don't even know if Bregalad did make this patch, but he could just argue that he did it so that people living in PAL regions could play the game without glitches on a PowerPak for example, not necessarily make carts.
I think that this crappy discussion is going nowhere.
Yeah exactly I made this patch to play with the Power Pak, although of course it could also work on fake cartridges as well.
Also I was more opposed to people asking howto do fake cartridge than fake cartridges themselves.
I wasn't opposed to it until I figured that there were really TOO much people that came on Nesdev JUST for that.
Bregalad wrote:
Yeah exactly I made this patch to play with the Power Pak, although of course it could also work on fake cartridges as well.
Also I was more opposed to people asking howto do fake cartridge than fake cartridges themselves.
I wasn't opposed to it until I figured that there were really TOO much people that came on Nesdev JUST for that.
Almost nothing in the Hardware and Flash Equipment section is NES dev related. There is like one topic on the first page of this section that has anything remotely to do with develeping for the NES. The biggest topic in this section is about what games do and don't work well with the powerpak. What does that have to do with NES dev? Nothing. If you are going to gripe so much about the "fake" cartridge questions then you should be all over any powerpak topic that doesn't have to do with a homebrew game.
This website (which is a great resource of all things NES) has not only info actually developing NES programs, but tons of other stuff like harware info. Much of that info has nothing to do with NES dev. The forum section title itself should let you know that there is going to be minimal NES development talk in here, so it really shouldn't bother you so much. This website is the best resource on the internet for information about putting a game on real cartridge, so I think it is extremely fitting that these types of questions are posted here. Also, there have only been 25 threads that have been created or had any activity this entire month, so it isn't like these threads are taking away anything from any other threads.
As for the whole "fake" cartridge thing... I find your point of view on it to be a bit silly. "Fake" implies that you are trying trick someone into thinking it is the real thing. The vast majority of the these questions have to do with games that never really even existed. Most of the games are prototypes or translations. The people that actually want these games know exactly what they are getting. Aside from a couple of examples people faking Stadium Events everybody I have seen making and selling repro NES games have been on the up and up. I can understand not helping someone repro a game that actually exists, but the repros that we are talking about here are totally harmless. There is absolutely nothing worse about playing one of these games on a repro cart than playing it on a powerpak. A lot of people want an actual cartridge with a pretty label to play with. Some people collect games and want a real copy for their collection. These "fake" games are not as evil as you seem to think.
I think the reason you imply that the hardware info and such isn't for development is because nobody talks about it. I would think that this is because everyone who uses it doesn't need help and is already skilled in the section enough where they can just go along with the info themselves without much help.
Just a guess though.
NES console mods have nothing to do with NES development. Playing games released games on a powerpak have nothing to do with NES development. Almost nothing in this section has to do with development. Of course hardware is related to development of new games, but the hardware is what it is. It isn't going to change. The vast majority of discussion on the subject of hardware has nothing to do with development.
All I am saying is that there is no harm in discussing repros in this section. It is appropriate as this site is the main source for info regarding the subject at hand. Even if it were off topic it wouldn't be much of a problem considering the small amount of activity that this forum section has in the first place.
Some people like myself come here looking for help because we want game on real cart not just rom on flashcard or PC emulator. I can play NES rom on NDS flashcard with GC GBA adaptor on my TV alright but that is not the point. The point is I want to have physical carts and display them on my shelf , hidden utility stuff. It has nothing to do with how much you can make per hour.
Also in my case , I cann't even find a site that will make me a famicom cart. :/
horseboy wrote:
Of course hardware is related to development of new games, but the hardware is what it is. It isn't going to change.
Until Memblers or someone else comes up with a cool new CPLD mapper.
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Some people like myself come here looking for help because we want game on real cart not just rom on flashcard or PC emulator.
Once more again, I don't have ANY problem with this if it is your ROM, and if this is not for sale.
Quote:
Almost nothing in the Hardware and Flash Equipment section is NES dev related. There is like one topic on the first page of this section that has anything remotely to do with develeping for the NES. The biggest topic in this section is about what games do and don't work well with the powerpak. What does that have to do with NES dev? Nothing.
It seems you are taking a sarcastic tone to oppose me. Of course it is related to NES development to know what mappers are correctly emulated on the power pak. The inner working of mappper is also realated to nes development.
just an example, I won't commant your whole furious posts because I don't feel like it.
Do we happen to have "official" forum rules regarding this issue? Would something like "We don't do reproductions here - use a PowerPak" correctly express our community's view on this issue? Or are we blowing this out of proportion? I've been on this board for 10 years, and really this hasn't been an issue until recently - maybe it will go away.
teaguecl wrote:
Or are we blowing this out of proportion?
That one. A minority have decided it is now a problem and would rather be hostile instead of helping, or even just ignoring it.
Yeah, I don't see the problem. If people want to build a cart of whatever, good for them. If they sell it to someone who knows what it is, there is no crime (unless it's done as a profitable copyright violation, but apparently that's not enforced with NES stuff). This isn't mass production (the ones who can/will do mass production for profit, surely will not need to ask how!). If someone wants to sell a cart to someone in an attempt to defraud them, then they are in for a world of shit. At least in the US, if you mailed it, that is mail fraud. That's federal law, with very harsh punishment. Whatever consequences there are for breaking a rule on a forum, it's pretty much nothing compared to that. Or compared to statutory copyright damages (which is not our job to enforce, at least not until the corporate government sponsors change the law again..).
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That one. A minority have decided it is now a problem and would rather be hostile instead of helping, or even just ignoring it.
Your insistance on bashing me and trying to make people belive the black market is my invention make me think you might be a guy who actually is a lot into that black market and that you are trying to get the NESdev communauty on your side so you could ask things to us and make profit on it.
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
That one. A minority have decided it is now a problem and would rather be hostile instead of helping, or even just ignoring it.
Your insistance on bashing me and trying to make people belive the black market is my invention make me think you might be a guy who actually is a lot into that black market and that you are trying to get the NESdev communauty on your side so you could ask things to us and make profit on it.
I don't think that he's bashing you. He's not being rude. IMHO, it is an honest assessment.
Guys and Gals, have we beaten this issue enough? It seems to me that the nesdev community (as a whole) is only really opposed to individuals attempting to make fake carts to swindle others with. Everything else is a bit gray. Can we just leave it at that and get back to coding?
Bregalad wrote:
Your insistance on bashing me and trying to make people belive the black market is my invention
The "black market" has been around more than a decade, and possibly older than all of the NesDev site/boards. Your invention is the idea that everyone asking wiring questions is trying to scam someone. Except you can't even point to a single person here who has done that. With how much of a massive problem you believe it to be that should be simple.
Bregalad wrote:
you might be a guy who actually is a lot into that black market and that you are trying to get the NESdev communauty on your side so you could ask things to us and make profit on it.
But I haven't sold anything, haven't asked any reproduction related questions, and never expect to build any hardware at all (my brazing torch would fry boards!) However if you ever notice I am trying to rip people off it would be the first and only example of your ideas!
It may just be a translation issue, but that last part once again sounds like you are simply against profits.
Memblers wrote:
Yeah, I don't see the problem. If people want to build a cart of whatever, good for them. If they sell it to someone who knows what it is, there is no crime (unless it's done as a profitable copyright violation, but apparently that's not enforced with NES stuff). This isn't mass production (the ones who can/will do mass production for profit, surely will not need to ask how!). If someone wants to sell a cart to someone in an attempt to defraud them, then they are in for a world of shit. At least in the US, if you mailed it, that is mail fraud. That's federal law, with very harsh punishment. Whatever consequences there are for breaking a rule on a forum, it's pretty much nothing compared to that. Or compared to statutory copyright damages (which is not our job to enforce, at least not until the corporate government sponsors change the law again..).
Well there you go. Seems like the discussion is over. You are entitled to your opinion Bregalad, however insane it might seem. I suggest you just pretend like these topics don't exist.
horseboy wrote:
Memblers wrote:
Yeah, I don't see the problem. If people want to build a cart of whatever, good for them. If they sell it to someone who knows what it is, there is no crime (unless it's done as a profitable copyright violation, but apparently that's not enforced with NES stuff). This isn't mass production (the ones who can/will do mass production for profit, surely will not need to ask how!). If someone wants to sell a cart to someone in an attempt to defraud them, then they are in for a world of shit. At least in the US, if you mailed it, that is mail fraud. That's federal law, with very harsh punishment. Whatever consequences there are for breaking a rule on a forum, it's pretty much nothing compared to that. Or compared to statutory copyright damages (which is not our job to enforce, at least not until the corporate government sponsors change the law again..).
Well there you go. Seems like the discussion is over. You are entitled to your opinion Bregalad, however insane it might seem. I suggest you just pretend like these topics don't exist.
Insane? No, it's the truth. It is against the law to scam people like happens.
3gengames wrote:
horseboy wrote:
Memblers wrote:
Yeah, I don't see the problem. If people want to build a cart of whatever, good for them. If they sell it to someone who knows what it is, there is no crime (unless it's done as a profitable copyright violation, but apparently that's not enforced with NES stuff). This isn't mass production (the ones who can/will do mass production for profit, surely will not need to ask how!). If someone wants to sell a cart to someone in an attempt to defraud them, then they are in for a world of shit. At least in the US, if you mailed it, that is mail fraud. That's federal law, with very harsh punishment. Whatever consequences there are for breaking a rule on a forum, it's pretty much nothing compared to that. Or compared to statutory copyright damages (which is not our job to enforce, at least not until the corporate government sponsors change the law again..).
Well there you go. Seems like the discussion is over. You are entitled to your opinion Bregalad, however insane it might seem. I suggest you just pretend like these topics don't exist.
Insane? No, it's the truth. It is against the law to scam people like happens.
Obviously scamming people is against the law. The point is that 99.9999% of repros being made are not for scamming people. They are for people to play and collect games that are not available any other way. It IS insane to think that everything going on with these repros are for scamming people. The only scamming attempt I have ever heard of was a fake Stadium Events. The people that buy these games know exactly what they are getting. Not to mention most of the people asking these questions aren't even selling the games. They are making them for themselves.
Like I quoted above, the site admin thinks it is just fine to ask these questions, so if you don't like it then just ignore it.
On a side note, the only thing you ever need to watch out for is Stadium Events. It is the only game worth faking. Nothing else sells for high enough to justify the expense of making a fake of high enough quality to deceive anyone. Everyone knows that any prototype or translated game is just reproduction and therefore cannot be tricked.
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The point is that 99.9999% of repros being made are not for scamming people.
Where does that number come from ?
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It IS insane to think that everything going on with these repros are for scamming people.
I meant everything *could* be scamming people, not that everything *was*.
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The only scamming attempt I have ever heard of was a fake Stadium Events. The people that buy these games know exactly what they are getting. Not to mention most of the people asking these questions aren't even selling the games. They are making them for themselves.
Well, the fact that this particular case was discovered probably means that many others weren't. And I'm pretty sure other scams happened with Earthbound, and in that prototype pics thread I made, you see pics with regular boards, that I suspect to be fakes as well.
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Like I quoted above, the site admin thinks it is just fine to ask these questions, so if you don't like it then just ignore it.
I guess I have no choice... hopefully this won't get Nesdev in trouble if Nintendo decides to chase counterfeits...
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On a side note, the only thing you ever need to watch out for is Stadium Events. It is the only game worth faking. Nothing else sells for high enough to justify the expense of making a fake of high enough quality to deceive anyone. Everyone knows that any prototype or translated game is just reproduction and therefore cannot be tricked.
Final Fantasy 1, 2, 3, Dragon Warrior 2,3,4, Earthbound, Crystalis, maybe some others games are valuable enough...
Collectors wants to collect true games, not illegal repros.
Wow this is pathetic.
I think I'm going to go make some pancakes, hopefully aunt Jamima doesn't get upset with me using No-Name brand syrup seen as its the same recipe and flavor as hers.
Someone needs a time out. Opinions are just opinions, but this is immature and unproductive.
I recommend pure maple syrup instead of "pancacke syrup". maple = yummy.
Today is my birthday. Tonight my wife is making chocolate chip pancakes for me. mmmm, I can't wait. My pancreas is already crying.
Dudes , if Nintendo decides to chase counterfeits on 30 years old system , Powerpak will be the first thing that get in trouble as what happened to Bung Enterprise back in 90s regarding SFC copiers and other stuffs.
Disney, another company associated in consumers' minds with children's entertainment, manages to convince the United States Congress to change the rules so that Disney can go after 75-year-old short films.
Historically Nintendo has only gone after current gen equipment. Bung in the 90s was current gen. The PowerPak is not. There are far bigger targets in the DS flash cart market, and repro makers would be a much easier case. With the PowerPak having no Nintendo copyrights/trademarks/patents (except debatably the Ciclone) it is not a simple thing to shut down.
The powerpak in itself is 100% legal, the NES and CIC pattents have expired in 2005 (even if they hadn't it would be in the gray zone at worst). I'll assume powerpak is used ONLY as a development tool of course. In theory, it's what it is for...
The same thing can't be said of fake cartridges. If there is few chances that Nintendo wants to shut anything down, then the better. Then we can freely distribute ROMs of commercial NES ROMs with no worries.
Bregalad wrote:
Then we can freely distribute ROMs of commercial NES ROMs with no worries.
This is far worse than making repros of unreleased games.
Why in the world would it be far worse ?
It's pretty much the same I think - a "repro" is putting a ROM on a real cart sou you have to get a ROM first.
ibeenew2 wrote:
Historically Nintendo has only gone after current gen equipment.
Except for, say, the infamous
Power Player Super Joy III.
Bregalad wrote:
The powerpak in itself is 100% legal, the NES and CIC pattents have expired in 2005 (even if they hadn't it would be in the gray zone at worst).
10NES is a computer program, and computer programs are copyrighted, and U.S. copyrights last 95 years. The CIClone program is a translation of Tengen's Rabbit, which in turn is a translation of 10NES. A bad-faith copy of 10NES, obtained by defrauding the U.S. Copyright Office, was ruled an infringement (
Atari Games v. Nintendo), but a copy of Lexmark's Toner Loading Program obtained without fraud was ruled not an infringement (
Lexmark v. Static Control Components).
Bregalad wrote:
Why in the world would it be far worse ?
It's pretty much the same I think - a "repro" is putting a ROM on a real cart sou you have to get a ROM first.
What I am saying is that Nintendo is more likely to care about ROMs being distributed for commercially released games that they would about reproductions of unreleased games.
This thread doesn't make sense anymore.
Will people let it go? It seems like some kind of ego fight about who will win that useless fight.
People have the right to their own opinion and their will always be people for or against something: that's human nature. There is no winning argument and it will continue as just bashing on both side forever and ever.
Argument over. Please lock that thread, it will just degenerate more and more.
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Argument over
I guess this means the next time someone will come up with a similar question, I am supposed to say nothing, whatever happens ?
Well after all this doesn't mean a thing to me, even if the HW forum is completely spammed by such request I will just have to ignore them. It's my bad to worry too much for this forum's health (and I mean it honnestly) after all I'm no admin or wathever so if I don't like some people or threads I just have to ignore them and so on.
Yet I'm sure many people will come over and OVER asking similar question, and don't complain if you waste your time explaining basic stuff to them only to have them "earning" supposedly rare prototypes/carts.
I'll close this topic with a quote from the previous page:
Memblers wrote:
If someone wants to sell a cart to someone in an attempt to defraud them, then they are in for a world of shit. At least in the US, if you mailed it, that is mail fraud. That's federal law, with very harsh punishment. [But this] is not our job to enforce
But otherwise, I agree that this topic is going nowhere:
Talk to the tummy.