i have about 100 CIC lockout chips i desoldered from games that didnt have a mapper i could use - im not sure if this is going to work... and rather than just sit here and experiment im trying to get some input...
according to the NESDEV wiki this is the CIC pinout
im not sure if the CIC internal to the system is different than those in the carts... as far as i know they're the same... if they're different i dont know which this pinout is for...
according to kevtris this is the CICLONE data sheet:
Quote:
1 - VCC (+5V, connects to pin 16 of lockout chip, cart pin 36)
2 - CLK (connects to pin 6 of lockout chip, cart pin 71)
3 - lockout functioning (see below)
4 - Din (connects to pin 2 of lockout chip, cart pin 34)
5 - RST (connects to pin 7 of lockout chip, cart pin 70)
6 - Dout (connects to pin 1 of lockout chip, cart pin 35)
7 - /Force NTSC (see below)
8 - GND (connects to pin 8 of lockout chip, cart pin 72)
When I say "connects to pin X of lockout chip" I mean the chip that would
be on the
cartridge. Not the chip in the system.
lockout functioning - this signal goes high when the lockout chip
successfully completes 64 frames.
The "lockout functioning" pin is only for debug use. Do not rely on it as
some form of cartridge power up reset.
Due to toploaders lacking the 4MHz clock, this pin will float or do odd
things in those systems. Cutting pin 4
of the lockout chip on a frontloader will cause the pin never to go high.
/force NTSC - pulling this pin low forces the chip into NTSC only (3193
only) mode.
The three PAL modes are not usable. Floating (disconnecting) this pin
allows the chip to try all 4 regions.
so... im not sure what all the terms mean here... i know Din and Dout must be analogous to data in and data out... im just trying to make sure i hook the correct pins to the correct parts of bunnyboys board... that is... if they are even compatible o.o
to simplify the question...
what do i do with the seed, lock/key, unknown2, slave cic reset, and cpu+ppu reset.... solder to GND? VCC?
The CICs are the same inside the system and in the cartridges, only wired differentely.
I guess the unused pins can be left floating. At least all the GND ones 11-15 on the other side are in fact unused pins and can be left floating. Seed is used only on key, so it can be left floating. I guess pin 5 can be left floating as well (it seems to be unused just like 11-15, grounded on old carts, leaving floating on new ones).
Reset (pin 07) should be connected (to the pin 10 of the system CIC) via the connector. Pins 9 and 10 are outputs so they are unused on the cart (leave floating).
Only the two (true) power pins 8 and 16, along with Reset, Clock, Data in and Data out should be clocked.
I think he's asking how to use a CIC in place of a CICLONE, because he has a bunch of them laying around that he desoldered from old cartridges. My advice is to just save those CIC chips for old cartridges that need them, and give in and use CICLONE chips for bunnyboy's boards.
with some rewiring... it works perfectly - most of the pins can be left floating... only 6 of them actually are connected to the board - snap the unused pins off - i'll have a better guide for this later... if anyone cares
~alex
ps - now im trying to get an alternate CHR chip working with the board... as the ones i have are for the old boards o.o - the alternate PRG worked fine tho
ok... i got the CIC working on the repropak - here's a quick diagram (note - the CIC is mounted in the placeholder upsidedown)
as far as using the "wrong" chips on the board... the PCB is designed for a 32 pin PRG rom - you can use a 28 pin prom... leave holes 1, 2, 31, and 32 empty... inotherwords the chip goes in closest to the CHR chip - make a jumper between pin 28 (hole 30) and holes 31 and 32 - done
the CHR... initially appeared to have some sort of problem - the actual problem was that the VERTICAL and HORIZONTAL jumpers must have been mislabled - vertical = horizonal and vice versa
if anyone wants me to make a diagram that DOESNT look like crap... let me know
alexmauer wrote:
the CHR... initially appeared to have some sort of problem - the actual problem was that the VERTICAL and HORIZONTAL jumpers must have been mislabled - vertical = horizonal and vice versa
Might this have something to do with the fact that the convention used by Nintendo (V = $2000 and $2800 are separate memory) is opposite that used by homebrew (V = $2000 and $2400 are separate memory)?
I guess we use H and V in terms of mirroring, while Nintendo uses those letters refering to scrolling. For example: if you're making a horizontal scroller (Nintendo's terminology), use vertical mirroring (our terminology). That is, you get a larger horizontal drawing area because that area is mirrored vertically.
Of course, no programmer is forced to use a certain type of mirroring because of the type of scrolling he's using. Every programmer is free to do it however they want, even if that means having glitches at the sides of the screen. So yeah, the above was just an example.
Anyway, someone should have had a better look at the Nintendo boards before coming up with a terminology that only causes confusion.
Mirroring instead of scrolling might have been decided upon intentionally to be different from Nintendo.
Well, in fact I like Nintendo terminology better, as H means the screens are aranged horizontally, and V means they are arranged vertically. It just does make more sense.
I guess I agree. "Mirroring" is a much more complex concept to understand than screen layout. For people used to regular high-level programming, mirroring is something they're really not used to. I had quite a bit of trouble understanding it for the first time, back when I got started with NES programming.
And "being different from nintendo" just for the heck of it would cause a lot of confusion... In this case, I don't really think that the terminology we use is in practice much better or worse than what Nintendo used, so inverting it on purpose seems stupid, because many programmers who have to deal with this while making their games will probably have to deal with this when making a devcart to try their project on hardware, and would end up thinking something was wrong.
tokumaru wrote:
And "being different from nintendo" just for the heck of it would cause a lot of confusion
The point behind this sort of confusion is to confuse the judge when someone's accused of trade secret misappropriation.
tepples wrote:
The point behind this sort of confusion is to confuse the judge when someone's accused of trade secret misappropriation.
Oh, boy! O_O
Are there any (fun) hobbies that do not break any laws? This is a kinda tiresome aspect of emulation.
Since it's written on the PCB it cannot be a trade secret.
Bumpin this.
Anyone have this diagram alex made? Im giving a game I made to a friend who doesn't wanna disable his lockout chip, so im trying to figure out how to convert the CIC to fit the ciclone. I can see most of the pins arent used and some are obvious where to connect but im not sure about the others.
*edit*
I found the diagrams on the wiki.
I got this:
pin 16 to hole 1 (VCC)
pin 6 to hole 2 (CLK)
pin 2 to hole 4 (DATA IN)
pin 7 to hole 5 (RESET)
pin 1 to hole 6 (DATA OUT)
pin 8 to hole 8 (GND)
but not sure what to do with hole 3 and 7 of the ciclone socket. 3 is Lockout functioning and 7 is force NTSC.