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Boom!

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Boom!
by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71010)

Well after working on it for a few days, I got a LOT added because of that topic that was about bad time layouts. Well, yeah, about 8 hours of work evenly distributed and I changed how the code works alot (To your disgust, everything is now done in VBlank, but I am going to probably change it as I near the end of the project) and I got eneough progress to show it to you guys. Thanks so much, guys. Without all of your help, none of this would be possible. I am putting this on a cart and testing it later, but it should work. Right now it's NROM-128 but it might change if any other games are added.

http://www.mediafire.com/?y7sd54istnv3ds0

Well, tell me what you think. After seeing how much space in the ROM I have, I am probably going to make 20 or so items that drop each level and increase the difficulty a little each level. The game WILL end, but trust me, no everyone will be able to do it.

Yet again.....if this forum didn't exist.....this probably would never be made. Thanks guys. Have fun messing around with this demo.

by thefox on 2010-12-04 (#71015)

Is something to supposed to happen in the demo? It doesn't respond to controls.

by Dwedit on 2010-12-04 (#71016)

Must use the paddle controller, and click the mouse.
Then the bad guy just moves to the right and drops bombs. When it reaches the right side, it wraps back to the left.
Not really a game yet.

by tepples on 2010-12-04 (#71018)

Too bad NES paddle controllers run about $40 on eBay, or I might try this on my PowerPak.

by tokumaru on 2010-12-04 (#71019)

If you are taking criticism, I think that the graphics need a serious upgrade. Even if you are not the greatest artist ever, at least you should make better use of what the system has to offer.

The water barrels, for example, have only 2 colors, blue and brown. NES sprites have 3 colors, so why not use the third color to make the barrels look more interesting?

Also, the tiny guy that throws the bombs. Why is he so tiny? It would be so cool if he had a more discernible face with different expressions depending on what was going on... I mean, even in the Atari 2600 version he is larger and more detailed than in your version. If you pay attention, games that were originally on the 2600 and were converted to more capable machines always had added detail. For example, check out these updated versions of River Raid and Keystone Kapers, where the backgrounds have been slightly improved.

Drawing backgrounds on the 2600 is not easy, but on the NES there's absolutely nothing stopping you from drawing an interesting background. Add some texture to that wall (I think it's a wall, at least), clouds to the sky, things like that.

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71021)

Dwedit wrote:
Must use the paddle controller, and click the mouse.
Then the bad guy just moves to the right and drops bombs. When it reaches the right side, it wraps back to the left.
Not really a game yet.

Yeah, it's just a demo. Game stuff to be added after I get all the subroutines in place and stuff laid 100% out.

Tokumaru, I have one pallet left over. I can expand the main character 3 characters wide, maybe even four. Would that be better? And for the bombs, I have a color pallet and then for the paddles I have one color pallet. I have one character pallet left over. I wanted to add a santa clause hat on the guy as a joke, but I guess I could over lap another character over the top two with the water that change for when a bomb hits it and take out the light blue for the bucket hit character and add two other colors, brown and black. Would that be good? Then use the extra 6 sprites to show when water hits the buckets and have four colors of blue to show water and water hit? It will add two colors of brown/tan to show bucket detail and add three colors for water detail. And plus I could also have some water show above the bucket, like the real game.

Yeah, criticism is liked, just don't say it sucks too bad. It's an early alpha.

And yeah, I am going to add nice backgrounds later once I get the actual game mechanics done. I have lots of background stuff to play with. :3

by tokumaru on 2010-12-04 (#71022)

Here's a suggestion of how to make the sprites more NES-like:

With the sprites arranged like that you can easily animate his hands when he drops the bombs, which should look interesting. I really think it's important that you stop drawing things so tiny... Since the basic design of this game doesn't require that many sprites be aligned horizontally, you can go crazy and use larger, more detailed objects. IMO you should even use 8x16 sprites, that way you'll be able to draw a lot of bombs without ever having to flicker anything.

The background obviously needs more detail too, but I don't have the time to do more mock-ups right now. You should definitely try to add buildings and clouds to the top part of the screen, and turn the green part into a wall with missing bricks, graffiti, things like that.

If you like my sprites, feel free to use them, I don't even want credit or anything. If you want to use them for inspiration when drawing yours, no problem. If you hate them, that's OK too, just forget I ever posted them. =)

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71023)

THOSE LOOK AWESOME.

I definitely think I will use those. I'll put them into my game later and animate them later....And every sprite I use, the less bombs will go onto the screen. And that bucket picture is very great too. I am understanding now to get detail by using the same color, just in more conectration, I take it because when the user isn't focusing on it, it just looks like a gradient and not like pixelated images? Dude, I'm so using those as inspiration. I love those. And the animated hands are a great idea too. Thanks so much for those ideas.

You will get credit, like it or not. ^_^

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71025)

I just did a count, and yeah, 8x16 sprites would be required it seems. The bomb images are great and I love your art. I am going to set it to 8x16 sprites when I get home and work on converting it to them and get my game engine working with them. Wow, when just getting the game working was inspiration, it's now going to look amazing. Thanks, t!

by tokumaru on 2010-12-04 (#71026)

I'm glad you liked them! =)

3gengames wrote:
I am understanding now to get detail by using the same color, just in more conectration, I take it because when the user isn't focusing on it, it just looks like a gradient and not like pixelated images?

Are you talking about the dithering? Because of the way the NES outputs video, the outcome of dithered patterns is somewhat unpredictable. When dithering graphics, it's a good idea to test them on a real NES or at least using the NTSC filter present in some emulators before deciding on the final patterns. I know I had to do a lot of testing until I was satisfied with the dithering patterns I used to shade the walls in my raycaster...

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71028)

Well, I want to use your graphics....Are the paddles two pixels wide? If they're bigger, Paddle+Bomb+Bomb2+Splash=9, if not it equals 8 and there's no problem. Oh well, if it's bigger then 24 I will have to shrink it down but keep everything else the same. Atleast I select some good colors, my graphics just sucked. I'll go edit the program and graphics and get a new demo out. Thanks.

ALSO:

I have a bug. If paddle is on the very left of the screen, hit detection goes crazy for some reason. I'll fix it later, kthxbai.

by HJRodrigo on 2010-12-04 (#71031)

tokumaru wrote:
Drawing backgrounds on the 2600 is not easy, but on the NES there's absolutely nothing stopping you from drawing an interesting background. Add some texture to that wall (I think it's a wall, at least), clouds to the sky, things like that.

Biggest change I would do would be to make it look more like he is dropping bombs from the top of a building.

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71032)

Yeah, I am going to add the background a big brick wall like Tokumaru said. I think thats a great idea and should be fun to add, but I need to worry about getting the sprites changed first and another demo out, then will add some features after it gets pretty much done.

Also, if you look at the PPU in the old version, I already have a easter egg....litterally! So, question is...what else should he drop?!?!?

I really want to add a cat, because I joked to my friends I'd make a game called "Super fantastic kittens of fun-filled death"

by cartlemmy on 2010-12-04 (#71033)

Looks like good progress, it's nice once your project actually starts doing something game-like. Perhaps you could add an option to use a standard NES controller as well?

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71035)

I was thinking controller would be a 2-player option only, where you press left and right, and if you hold down A, you go a little faster, B makes you go a little faster, and then A+b would make you go really fast. One person trying to out-speed the other and keep up would be really fun. It's like in duck hunt when one is controlling the duck, Too much fun!

Sound like a good idea? I'd maybe add a 1player mode like that, if it's easy enough to make AI for.

by tepples on 2010-12-04 (#71040)

3gengames wrote:
I was thinking controller would be a 2-player option only

If you can make and sell a clone of the Vaus Controller.

Quote:
where you press left and right, and if you hold down A, you go a little faster, B makes you go a little faster, and then A+b would make you go really fast.

You might not need two buttons if you use acceleration/braking logic.
Push right: gradually speed up until max speed
A+Right: accelerate faster, with a higher top speed
Let go: brake to a stop

I used something like this in a Pong clone for PC that I wrote as a 1-hour challenge, and it worked well.

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71044)

Well, I ment 2 players as 2 controllers, and not vaus controllers.

And that sounds interesting, but let me focus on just what the 8x16 sprites brings to the table. I've almost got 8x16 paddles done but it's being stupid. -.-

by Dwedit on 2010-12-04 (#71049)

Make it use the U-Force or Power Glove

by tokumaru on 2010-12-04 (#71052)

My honest opinion is that using anything other than a common controller, and possibly a light gun, reduces your audience a lot. Most people don't have these crazy controllers, and I bet they are terribly hard to find outside of the US. In fact, here in Brazil I even had trouble finding a light gun!

But ultimately, it's 3gengames' decision. He seems to like the paddle controllers, so he's intentionally designing the game for them, but if he decides to support every input device in existence, that's his call. I just think that not supporting the regular controller is a good way to lose players.

by GradualGames on 2010-12-04 (#71057)

This looks like it'll be fun, looking forward to see how it progresses.

by 3gengames on 2010-12-04 (#71058)

Haha, thanks gradualore.

And yeah, light guns here are so popular it's insane. And I love Kaboom!, even if it means limiting my audience, so be it. Kaboom without a paddle-type controller is not Kaboom! to me, so thats why I want it paddle only. I will make a controller type game on it probably, but only time will tell. I'll try to add something for controller guys though. Hell, maybe a light gun option too where the 2nd player could shoot bombs as they go twords the bottom? Like Pac-Man CE DX where when your about to die it slows down. LOL. Nah, thats just too insane. Don't count on it....[But that would be awesome!]

Time to go zoom-in on paint and copy those new fancy-azz characters to it!

by cartlemmy on 2010-12-05 (#71062)

Oh yeah, do what you think is right for your project. I just hope that when it's done you release the ROM, because there's no way in heclk I'm buying a real paddle controller

by 3gengames on 2010-12-05 (#71064)

I think I am going to do a run of 25, advertise them everywhere, and when they're done, I'll release my source and you guys can have at it.

Does that satisfy you?

I am doing a run of 25 because I can get 25 carts for like $3 each locally that are NROM-128, which I HOPE this game will use, and maybe even another game....and then run them, make $5-$10 off each one sold, and buy a powerpak for easier cart testing and the other $120 to fund devcarts and buying bulk ROM's for future projects. The only way you can get carts really cheap and buying in bulk is like the only way you can do that.

I've made about 4 NROM carts....and it's taken about an hour each. 25 hours of work might not be worth it to others, but I am actually kinda looking forward to it, it if happens.

by cartlemmy on 2010-12-05 (#71083)

3gengames wrote:
I think I am going to do a run of 25, advertise them everywhere, and when they're done, I'll release my source and you guys can have at it.

I think that's a pretty cool idea, but don't let my cheap ass be a factor in what you do

It brings up a point I really haven't thought about... I'm not sure how I'm going to release my project. I really want to produce it on a cart, but I'd like the option to put it out as a ROM as well. I get the feeling if I were to go the Retrozone route then it would be an exclusive deal where the only means of distribution would be there site, on a cart. I've also toyed with offering the ROM as a download with a "choose your price" payment system, like what Radio Head did with In Rainbows.

by 67726e on 2010-12-05 (#71084)

Cartlemmy, I think you touched on an interesting topic. I mean I just program for fun. I worked on my first commercial project over the course of the summer and it has been interesting to say the least. For something like this, I actually think the 'Pay Whatever' model would really be good. If people like what you did, they can pay what they feel the game is worth. Of course you could also sell the carts on the side

by 3gengames on 2010-12-05 (#71085)

Lol, I have nearly no money to produce carts so all the money will come from my parents and they won't approve of the "Pay whatever" model because it might not break even, and then, that'll be the ending of my funds!

But I like that idea alot, I just can't do it. :/ Oh well.....

But once I do a run of some carts, I'll release the ROM and source, you'll bet your life I do. I came to a conclusion I'll release the ROM to every project...it's just that the time to release the ROM will vary from nearly the same time to a couple months, maybe a year. That way everyone will get to play it, which I really want, and it'll have some time to make money. And actually, for my later projects that are better, I might just release the source. I only want enough money to make 5-6 different devcarts that I want, and then a powerpak to test code faster. I don't want any money after that. No reason. I got all the dev stuff, and I just like writing code. It's so fun.

EDIT:

Yay, new screen! [Can't link, URL only. Sorry.]

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.ph ... _id=182962

by 3gengames on 2010-12-23 (#71819)

Well, got the hit detection done finally, it will need re-written since it has some problems, and bomb moving and deletion will probably be re-written, since I need to make them run together better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_sIUYcbe1s

Sorry for crap quality of youtube. :/

by 3gengames on 2012-02-15 (#89979)

Best necrobump ever incoming! Not much to report except it's, well..done.

http://www.mediafire.com/?9s22tsm04ysm9xl

Some stuff has been added. Movement is going to be adjusted later. Not much else to say except give it a try. Somebody testing this with a real paddle would be MUCH appreciated.

by thefox on 2012-02-17 (#90087)

Well, here's some feedback:

1) You should display a text before/after a wave indicating that the user needs to press a button for the wave to start.
2) The fact that you can collect the bombs by hitting them with the side of the the water thing makes all of the first 4 demo waves too easy, at least on game pad.
3) Seems to be a lot of empty space in the ROM, time to add some music mayhaps?

by 3gengames on 2012-02-24 (#90486)

Never realized somebody posted something, but anyway I don't like the idea of telling the user to press a button to start the round, maybe I can do a 2 line quick "A/B/B/Paddle Button to start the wave" or something. And I would, but I don't want to sit on this project for longer just to add a small small thing in that would only be on the title screen, I want to make a sound engine myself after this though, so in my other projects hopefully we'll have actual music and sound effects. For just over 2KB program space, think just from that the game is a good size program wise? I try to program to save RAM mainly, then speed in some parts like score keeping (6 bytes wasted instead of 3 with 24 bit math decoded to a 6 values buffer for whatever) but I tried my best I believe.

And I must say, gonna throw this in, wouldn't be possible if I didn't get all the stupid topics/sometimes random IRC questions guys, thanks so much. Now just to finish all my other programs and I'll be very very happy to just start fresh again with a lot more experience and see what I can create then.

by infiniteneslives on 2012-02-25 (#90491)

I tried awhile back realizing my paddle was broken. I tried to fix it this evening after realizing the cord was bad. But it's still broken as I wasn't able to get arkanoid to recognize it. The button works as "all buttons mashed" on other games now but no dial. The prongs were all bent up I tried to fix em but no luck...

by 3gengames on 2012-02-25 (#90500)

Darn man, that sucks, I still need to test it with real paddles or get confirmation it works so I'd really like it if you could test it with one.