Pitfall!

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Pitfall!
by on (#28878)
here is a beta of the game (ntsc). there is no sound.

i don't have a chip programmer so if someone could test it on actual hardware i would greatly appreciate it (mmc1).

controls for level editor:

up, down: move cursor around current menu
left, right: move cursor from menu to menu
sel, start: cycle through scenes
A: enter

feedback would also be appreciated.



11-09-16

new
-new titlescreen
-palette fade during screen transitions
-redesigned level editor
-timeout during gameplay (press select), does not decrease score like the hint screen
-updated physics
-fixed some animations
-added (bad) music and sfx

known issues
-split for timeout bar is messed up, DMC samples in use


02-09-17

new
-included source, assembles with asm6
-removed region check
-aligned DMC samples
-fixed bug with enemy icons in editor
-fixed player vine position being delayed a frame
-adjusted player vine positions
-fix the screen tearing with the "TIME OUT!" bar

by on (#28881)
Can't test for you right now but I have to say I think it's pretty awesome, definitely up there in best of NES homebrew.

by on (#28882)
Very nice indeed! Loved the editor, with the tiny preview and all!

I just expected the vines to be a bit thicker, they are too thin, don't you think? I kinda feel that the movement could be smoother, but I really don't remember how it was in the original game.

Anyway, I'm glad you made such a good homebrew. Good work!

by on (#28887)
I like it. Its very well done. At first I thought it was busted, but thats just because I had my emulator set to PAL mode.

Have you tried it on a Power Pak?

Al

by on (#28900)
The best home brew I ever played, exceptional work. If there was sound would it run the DMC channel?

by on (#28907)
This is really well programmed! And such cute retro graphics too!

I tried it on my Famicom w/ PowerPak and I didn't notice any glitches while I played.

I actually haven't played Pitfall in over 20 years, so I don't know the rules. Are you actually penalized 500 points every time you pause the game (& see the "map"?)

Good luck with the game (and any additions to the traps/enemies/graphics, hint, hint...)

by on (#28914)
That is awesome. Does look like the movement isn't really smooth, but I'm pretty sure that's because of the lower resolution of the 2600. Movement speed seems about right.

I ported an Activision 2600 game also, a while back, Freeway. It worked though I never got the car patterns done right.

I worked on an NES cover of the Pitfall 2 theme a long time ago, if that'd be any use to you let me know and I could remake/finish it. Though I guess that'd be kinda weird since the first one was pretty quiet. Credit, title screen or custom game music maybe.

ccovell: The original didn't have a map.

by on (#28916)
Some criticism:
The game mechanics are WAY off.
* In the original, jumping did not allow you to change direction in midair. This messes up the common technique of jumping, then immediately letting go of the Right direction to ensure that the guy stops immediately after the jump.
* It's very hard to grab the vines. This is because the vines movement is way off, the vines are supposed to move smoothly in a pattern, which takes a significant amount of time for the vines to stop and change direction. Here they change direction far too fast.

Additionally, the game is not smooth enough. The original game allowed you to move 1 horizontal doublepixel every two frames.

There's also a disassembly of Pitfall floating around, I'm sure that using it directly would be flagrant copyright infringement.

by on (#28919)
NotTheCommonDose wrote:
The best home brew I ever played, exceptional work.

Have you ever played NES Snake 2 or Solar Wars ?

by on (#28922)
Bregalad wrote:
NotTheCommonDose wrote:
The best home brew I ever played, exceptional work.

Have you ever played NES Snake 2 or Solar Wars ?


I was just going to mention that NES Snake 2 is up there. I haven't played too much of Solar Wars. I love the sound in NES Snake 2.

But this I think is a great remake! The game handles a lot better than the original (Maybe since I'm not using a really annoying joystick). I hope you're planning to put sound in. This would be a much more enjoyable experience with music.

by on (#28928)
The only reason I offer critique is that this is a very promising-looking remake, worthy of polishing to perfection.

Movement seems jerky (20 FPS?). I'd expect that the original ran at 60 FPS, but I may be wrong. Also, my emulator reported a possible sprite DMA while the PPU was active, but maybe it's not the case. Does it work on hardware?

Quote:
The game handles a lot better than the original (Maybe since I'm not using a really annoying joystick).

If this is true, doesn't that mean the challenge of the original is lost?

by on (#28929)
Celius wrote:
Bregalad wrote:
NotTheCommonDose wrote:
The best home brew I ever played, exceptional work.

Have you ever played NES Snake 2 or Solar Wars ?


I was just going to mention that NES Snake 2 is up there. I haven't played too much of Solar Wars. I love the sound in NES Snake 2.


I'll see if I have time to play snake

But this I think is a great remake! The game handles a lot better than the original (Maybe since I'm not using a really annoying joystick). I hope you're planning to put sound in. This would be a much more enjoyable experience with music.[/quote]

The original never had music just sounds that could be emulated thru raw PCM

by on (#28935)
Quote:
If this is true, doesn't that mean the challenge of the original is lost?

Rule #1 to make a good game : A challenge should NEVER come out of poor controls.

by on (#28940)
blargg wrote:
Quote:
The game handles a lot better than the original (Maybe since I'm not using a really annoying joystick).

If this is true, doesn't that mean the challenge of the original is lost?


I didn't think that the challenge of the original came from the crappy controls. And besides, if the game is now completely easy because the controls aren't complete crap, someone needs to rethink the challenge factor of their game. I personally enjoy Pitfall. If the only reason the game was challenging was due to the dumb joystick, I probably wouldn't play it.

by on (#28951)
Dwedit wrote:
There's also a disassembly of Pitfall floating around, I'm sure that using it directly would be flagrant copyright infringement.


But the VCS code is so far removed from how it'd be done on NES, it'd be pretty much unusable and incomprehensible without knowing how the TIA chip does it's thing.

by on (#28959)
thanks for all the comments. it's really helpful to see what others think, and hear the strengths and weakness of what i have so far.


blargg wrote:
Movement seems jerky (20 FPS?). I'd expect that the original ran at 60 FPS, but I may be wrong. Also, my emulator reported a possible sprite DMA while the PPU was active, but maybe it's not the case. Does it work on hardware?


yeah harry's movement is 20 fps (15 when on the ladder). i'm re-working my nmi handler to remove all the code that can be done during rendering, so that should remove any possibility of it spilling over.

i haven't yet tested it on hardware because i don't have a programmer and can't afford one 'till probably after the holidays. i was hoping someone on the board would be so kind, but i'll eventually have the cash to do it myself.



Celius wrote:
I hope you're planning to put sound in. This would be a much more enjoyable experience with music.


i do plan to put music and sound fx into the game. i had a guy lined up to do the music/music engine, but haven't heard from him in awhile. looks like i'm just gonna have to sit down and learn how to use the APU and compose some music.

by on (#28964)
Bregalad wrote:
Rule #1 to make a good game : A challenge should NEVER come out of poor controls.

But where do you draw the line between poor control and inherent physics of the game? For example, Castlevania's jump that you can't control while in mid-air. Poor control, or just the physics of jumping? Technically, it's accurate.

Many games take liberty with jumping and give you mid-air control, even control over how high the jump goes after you've left the ground, as if there are little rocket thrusters on your character or something. You may enjoy full jump control (even Mario has less jump control than other games), but this doesn't mean a game with less jump control is merely creating difficulty with "poor controls".

That said, I do think the selection of jump control is related to difficulty, because if you're forced to always give the player full jump control, then you lose many opportunities to give challenge due to the level design. By having no mid-air jump control, there are more things you can do with level design that are challenging.

That's not to say that there aren't games with poor control. It's not that they offer no mid-air control (some do, and are still poor); it's that the physics introduce too much variation that you have little control over, or your movement is delayed or choppy. As long as a control scheme is predictable and puts you in control of the variation, and doesn't have odd behaviors, the player can learn to be in full control.

To take it to ane extreme, you could argue that all jumping is just poor controls; the real controls should be independent X/Y movement of your character, as if it were an overhead game. While silly, it illustrates the continuum of the amount of control you have, and that there isn't just one point that is correct and the others "poor control".

(mods, split the above off as a separate topic if necessary)

never-obsolete wrote:
i do plan to put music and sound fx into the game. i had a guy lined up to do the music/music engine, but haven't heard from him in awhile. looks like i'm just gonna have to sit down and learn how to use the APU and compose some music.

Isn't the music really simple? Shouldn't be hard to lift from the original code, or just do by ear with a custom music driver. Copyright wouldn't be any more an issue than it already is, since (I'm assuming) you've copied the graphics and game play from the original.

EDIT: Ahhh, it had no music (YouTube clip). Has anyone reverse-engineered the sound engine, or would it make more sense to just examine recordings of the sound effects to reproduce the sounds? I might like to take a crack at making exact reproductions on the NES.

by on (#28968)
The trees were also brown and Harry's face was tan. Colorblindness might have played a factor in NES development. :)

by on (#28975)
Games shouldn't be entierly based on real physics, if they would you would neer be able to jump more than about 3/4 of your height (unless the hero is a real champion of sports, wich may be since he's a hero), and wihout futher running, a jump couldn't reach 1/4 of your height.

And while the Castlevania jump is inconfortable, it's still possible to get used to it (but it takes a while). However, the jump in metroid is, at least for me, impossible to get used for so it's unpredictable and act weirdly.

by on (#29321)
I like it! I played it using my powerpak, and I think you did really great. The controllable jumps do make it slightly easier than the original.

Why not add some new features? New badguys and some weapons maybe? Frag grenades, yeah!! How about something if you input the konami code?

by on (#29329)
cd_vision wrote:
I like it! I played it using my powerpak, and I think you did really great. The controllable jumps do make it slightly easier than the original.

Why not add some new features? New badguys and some weapons maybe? Frag grenades, yeah!! How about something if you input the konami code?


But not to the original...

by on (#29345)
cd_vision wrote:
...How about something if you input the konami code?


did you try it...

by on (#29358)
Well I did notice that if you pause the game you lose 500 points, but if the code is doing something I'm not noticing it.

by on (#29359)
WTF!?! The original never had that retardedness. :roll:

by on (#29361)
You should definitely add some new stuff. Perhaps you can have a two-in-one thing where you can either choose to play the original, or you can play the arranged mode, with updated graphics and new enemies and stuff.

by on (#29379)
cd_vision wrote:
Well I did notice that if you pause the game you lose 500 points, but if the code is doing something I'm not noticing it.


the code will give you 4 lives. it has to be done before the title screen stops scrolling.

NotTheCommonDose wrote:
WTF!?! The original never had that retardedness.


it didn't have an in-game map either.

by on (#29390)
Either way, I was kind of waiting to see some of your work.
This is a nice game. Thanks for releasing a beta!

by on (#29397)
Overall you did a great jpb with it (except adding new things)

by on (#29416)
[sound] *Harry jumps over the green snake* [/sound]

by on (#29800)
I think this looks great ! It needs some polishing, but definitly a pretty nice beta.

by on (#29816)
Pretty nice indeed. I hope my game will have a playable beta. All I can offer are screenshots...

by on (#35337)
Works on a Powerpak. Strangely silent. Pressing reset gets NTSC warning sometimes.

by on (#57489)
Who wrote the "Snake 2" homebrew and where is the website for it? I'd like to give it a spin.

I still need to order the Frogger port cart from RetroUSB too...that's high on my list, although I'd rather have it as a bright green Famicom cart. :-)

Maybe I'll order one, dump it, burn the ROMs to a Famicom cart and have some fun with that. (No, I won't be selling them.) I wonder what FC cart it'd be compatible with in order to ensure success...

I'd like to see an Asteroids or Tempest or even a Lunar Lander homebrew...with arcade-style emulated vector graphics of course. Those would be brill!

Has anybody considered giving any of those classics a try?

-Xious

Celius wrote:
Bregalad wrote:
NotTheCommonDose wrote:
The best home brew I ever played, exceptional work.

Have you ever played NES Snake 2 or Solar Wars ?


I was just going to mention that NES Snake 2 is up there. I haven't played too much of Solar Wars. I love the sound in NES Snake 2.

But this I think is a great remake! The game handles a lot better than the original (Maybe since I'm not using a really annoying joystick). I hope you're planning to put sound in. This would be a much more enjoyable experience with music.
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#57492)
Very nice.

Are you thinking of polishing the game to make it more NES-like and less 2600-like so that we have a proper Pitfall for the NES?

That would be so awesome, as Pitfall was one of my favourites on ther 2600 and "Super Pitfall" for the NES was a real let-down...!

-Xious

never-obsolete wrote:
here is a beta of the game (ntsc). there is no sound.



i don't have a chip programmer so if someone could test it on actual hardware i would greatly appreciate it (mmc1).

controls for level editor:

up, down: move cursor around current menu
left, right: move cursor from menu to menu
sel, start: cycle through scenes
A: enter

feedback would also be appreciated.
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#57501)
Xious wrote:
Are you thinking of polishing the game to make it more NES-like and less 2600-like so that we have a proper Pitfall for the NES?

Image
Pitfall is not an NES game.

And Activision probably wants to keep it that way. Given what the company has been doing lately to fan games like The Silver Lining, what makes you think they won't do the same thing to an NES port of Pitfall! ?

by on (#57505)
Coincidently, I started working on this again last week to get a break from my main project. Right now I'm cleaning up all the code and and condensing it to NROM. There will be an MMC1 version, but the only difference is that it'll backup the custom level data and score tables to SRAM.

In the past I tried to recruit someone for the music/soundfx, but for whatever reason, nothing ever came of it. Though if anyone is interested, drop me a PM.

by on (#57540)
All I get is a 404 when I try to DL the beta
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#57545)
tepples wrote:
Xious wrote:
Are you thinking of polishing the game to make it more NES-like and less 2600-like so that we have a proper Pitfall for the NES?

Image
Pitfall is not an NES game.

And Activision probably wants to keep it that way. Given what the company has been doing lately to fan games like The Silver Lining, what makes you think they won't do the same thing to an NES port of Pitfall! ?


Right, 'Super Pitfall' is what they released for the NES. What I'm saying is that it would be nice to have a full port of Pitfall for the NES with updated graphics and sound.

What about the Frogger NES port that's on RetroUSB.com? SEGA owns the rights to Frogger, and they haven't sued the pants off of the guy who did the homebrew, even though it's an almost identical game. As long as he doesn’t use any code from Pitfall to write his game and names it something different, Activision's case will be merely air if they choose to take any action at all.

Pitfall isn't the only game of its style ever made; it’s just the best of them for the 2600. Where is the infringement in writing a new game that plays like the Atari version of Pitfall with completely new graphics and ASM?

-Xious
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#57546)
Xious wrote:
What about the Frogger NES port that's on RetroUSB.com?

Konami probably just doesn't know about it yet. Recall that it took a while for Konami to find out about In the Groove. Notice the repro of a Super Mario Bros. + Rad Racer + Tetris multicart for $55 on RetroUSB.com; that's probably up there only because Nintendo, Square Enix, and Tetris Co. don't know about it yet.

Quote:
As long as he doesn’t use any code from Pitfall to write his game and names it something different

Name it something different, replace the graphics, and make new levels, and you have "yet another platformer that would appeal to Pitfall! fans," not that it's a bad thing. But the association of a genre with one famous title isn't quite as strong with scrolling or edge-flipping games as it is with single-screen games like Donkey Kong or Pac-Man or Missile Command or Tetris.

Quote:
Pitfall isn't the only game of its style ever made; it’s just the best of them for the 2600. Where is the infringement in writing a new game that plays like the Atari version of Pitfall with completely new graphics and ASM?

The problem occurs when either patents apply (true for In the Groove, not true for a Pitfall clone) or the "completely new graphics" aren't new enough and aren't "scenes a faire". As I understand it, the court decided Atari v. Philips in favor of Namco and Atari because the Munchkin character wasn't different enough from Pac-Man.

by on (#57559)
Quote:
All I get is a 404 when I try to DL the beta. Is it posted anywhere else to try out?

Pitfall!

I have a newer version that was never released that I'll post when I get home. Nothing major, animations are smoother (somewhat), level data can be sent to the cart via a 232 cable (thanks Memblers), and a few other minor things.
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#182577)
I (finally) updated the first post with version 0.92.3.
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#182638)
In the original game, when leaving the vine I'm pretty sure it never leaves to the wrong direction. Never tested exactly the rules of leaving a vine, but when I want to get to the other side of the lake it goes to the other side of the lake, not towards it.

Very interesting project though and nicely done. Having it play like the original would be great.
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#182645)
Are you supposed to be able to get off of ladders by jumping to the right? Only left seems to work for me.
Re: Pitfall!
by on (#188880)
Updated first post with version 0.93.0, source code included.