I am going through some of my old files, and ran across this... Is this the NES color palette? If it is, I thought yellow wasn't possible?
It looks like it is, and the colors are aproximata anyway. The palette may differ slightly from TV to TV, and may differ a lot from NTSC to PAL.
$28 or $27 are the closest to yellow to exist, but $28 looks like piss and $27 looks like gold, so there is no true yellow I guess.
$28 or $27 are the closest to yellow to exist, but $28 looks like piss and $27 looks like gold, so there is no true yellow I guess.
- Personally, I don't know what is "yellow" in RGB values, if actually a triplex could be defined as "yellow".
- Back to the topic, NES palettes are so common as candies, but (sort of) everybody agrees that my rip from Rockman Complete Works is the best match. It's not officially released, but someone has hacked it and released anyways... try an easy google search.
- Back to the topic, NES palettes are so common as candies, but (sort of) everybody agrees that my rip from Rockman Complete Works is the best match. It's not officially released, but someone has hacked it and released anyways... try an easy google search.
Yellow = #$FFFF00. I use it on my amazingly unfinished website (http://mtac.profusehost.net/).
$2D and $3D shouldn't be black unless you're on a PlayChoice. Otherwise, this palette looks OK-ish, within the admitted boundaries of Never The Same Color.
Your palette is a bit... weird. The colors are too strong or whatever. This is much more like an actual NES, and you can see there is no real yellow in it:
Colors $37 and $38 would have to be the closest thing to yellow. In your palette, color $37 is very yellow, but I've never seen an yellow like this on the NES.
Colors $37 and $38 would have to be the closest thing to yellow. In your palette, color $37 is very yellow, but I've never seen an yellow like this on the NES.
I got my palette from god knows where.. I think it is a playchoice one, from the numbers on the title of the graphic..
That is not an accurate palette, it looks more like the Nesticle palette than anything else.
For one thing, color 01 is not dark enough.
For one thing, color 01 is not dark enough.
tokumaru, I think $2c and $3c in the palette you posted look like almost the same luminance ($3c looks only slightly brighter than $2c), so those definitely need to be adjusted. Is $1d supposed to be brighter than $0f or exactly the same? Most have $1d the same as $0f, others have it slightly brighter than $0f.
EDIT: Changed "your palette" to "the palette you posted", since the palette tokumaru posted isn't his. Sorry for the misconception, tokumaru.
EDIT: Changed "your palette" to "the palette you posted", since the palette tokumaru posted isn't his. Sorry for the misconception, tokumaru.
Hey, it's not my palette or anything! =) It's just the first one I found, which, IMO, seems much more NES-like than the one evildragon posted. But I guess neither is accurate...
As tepples said, the color can vary a lot of NTSC systems due to impresition of the format itself (from what I've heard, I have never seen an actual NTSC TV, nor do I know much about video encoding), and since the NES palette is generated by pure analog circuitery there is no way to know exect palette values. However, I'm pretty sure PAL and NTSC colors for the same palette value can vary a lot for the same value.
I've already wondering a lot about $1d, and I remember being told that it was almost the same as $0f, while $2d was almost the same as $00, and $3d almost the same as $10, and that $xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
I've already wondering a lot about $1d, and I remember being told that it was almost the same as $0f, while $2d was almost the same as $00, and $3d almost the same as $10, and that $xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
Bregalad wrote:
As tepples said, the color can vary a lot of NTSC systems due to impresition of the format itself (from what I've heard, I have never seen an actual NTSC TV, nor do I know much about video encoding), and since the NES palette is generated by pure analog circuitery there is no way to know exect palette values. However, I'm pretty sure PAL and NTSC colors for the same palette value can vary a lot for the same value.
I've already wondering a lot about $1d, and I remember being told that it was almost the same as $0f, while $2d was almost the same as $00, and $3d almost the same as $10, and that $xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
I've already wondering a lot about $1d, and I remember being told that it was almost the same as $0f, while $2d was almost the same as $00, and $3d almost the same as $10, and that $xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
This is my NTSC Genesis displayed on my HDTV.. (which has an NTSC decoder for obvious reasons)
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... 1mario.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eldaii.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... ytoons.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eforce.jpg
Some of the pics were overexposed.. I could always take them again..
Bregalad wrote:
$xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
Technically, $01-$0c oscillate between $00 and $0d, so they do access $0d temporarily. I guess when used as its own color (not for rendering other colors), the $0d voltage is long enough to cause problems in certain TVs.
evildragon wrote:
This is my NTSC Genesis displayed on my HDTV.. (which has an NTSC decoder for obvious reasons)
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... 1mario.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eldaii.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... ytoons.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eforce.jpg
Some of the pics were overexposed.. I could always take them again..
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... 1mario.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eldaii.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... ytoons.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eforce.jpg
Some of the pics were overexposed.. I could always take them again..
I would take pics of my industrial composite monitor I currently have my NES hooked up to, if only I had a DVD player that supported JPEG so that I could display the SMPTE test pattern to recalibrate it...
Bregalad wrote:
As tepples said, the color can vary a lot of NTSC systems due to impresition of the format itself (from what I've heard, I have never seen an actual NTSC TV, nor do I know much about video encoding), and since the NES palette is generated by pure analog circuitery there is no way to know exect palette values. However, I'm pretty sure PAL and NTSC colors for the same palette value can vary a lot for the same value.
I've already wondering a lot about $1d, and I remember being told that it was almost the same as $0f, while $2d was almost the same as $00, and $3d almost the same as $10, and that $xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
I've already wondering a lot about $1d, and I remember being told that it was almost the same as $0f, while $2d was almost the same as $00, and $3d almost the same as $10, and that $xd should be avoided anyway because if you fall the palette to black by software chances are that the color $0d will eventually be reached.
Well, there are "recommendations" that all TVs should follow, those recommendations also define appropriate voltage levels and timing which apparently have been measured from the NES. So it is possible to get a palette from a perfectly calibrated TV by using the recommendation as a TV.
atari2600a wrote:
evildragon wrote:
This is my NTSC Genesis displayed on my HDTV.. (which has an NTSC decoder for obvious reasons)
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... 1mario.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eldaii.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... ytoons.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eforce.jpg
Some of the pics were overexposed.. I could always take them again..
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... 1mario.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eldaii.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... ytoons.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/s ... eforce.jpg
Some of the pics were overexposed.. I could always take them again..
I would take pics of my industrial composite monitor I currently have my NES hooked up to, if only I had a DVD player that supported JPEG so that I could display the SMPTE test pattern to recalibrate it...
My HDTVs inputs were actually ISF calibrated, costed me 700 dollars to do too.. So, it should be as accurate as any other monitor.
(as my HDTV doesn't even have an ATSC tuner, it's a real authentic NTSC tuner)
EDIT: Um, wait, oops! I had Genesis on the brain.. Those pictures are of my NES, not my Genesis.. Sorry bout that!
Rip them from Nintendo's GBA NES series.
But aren't the Classic NES Series palettes gamma-corrected for the dark GBA screen? Or do they display on a GameCube Game Boy Player in the same colors that the original NES games display on an NES connected to the same TV?
I'm sure it's correct.
It's the most official color you could get, since it's from the official company, and GBA displays things like how they wanted, especially after SP came in.
It would make the most sense.
It's the most official color you could get, since it's from the official company, and GBA displays things like how they wanted, especially after SP came in.
It would make the most sense.
Then why don't the NES games on Wii have NTSC artifacts as a NES does? Answer: they didn't want them to be exactly the same as the NES. The only correct example of how a NES looked on a 1980s TV is... a NES connected to a 1980s TV.
Well, I don't think Nintendo gives a shit about how accurate their NES emulation is. People gotta stop thinking they do, just because they made the console in the first place. That was ages ago, I don't think anyone there really knows the NES anymore.
blargg wrote:
Then why don't the NES games on Wii have NTSC artifacts as a NES does?
For the same reason that the electrocution sound in Balloon Fight on Animal Crossing is so muffled. Namely that Nintendo doesn't give a shit.
Why is NTSC such a peice of shit anyway?
It's not, it filled the need for color TV which was backwards compatible with black & white TV before any others. It's just old. Nowadays (interlaced games) you can play a game in composite and hardly see the difference between it and component/RGB. Anyways, I would take the low color bandwidth of NTSC over the flickeryness of a 50Hz set anyway. And it's all a moot point since the best games are all developed for 525 lines / 60Hz.
So RGB is computer display and that's why pixels look sharp and crisp?
Yes, but the niceness of computer displays is also because they're progressive displays with lots of vertical lines, a nice shadow mask allowing lots of horizontal resolution, most video modes have square pixels and because they're refreshed more than 60Hz.
NTSC crams more than one signal together, so it acts sort of like digital where there is a hard limit to resolution. With RGB, there's no design limit to resolution, since each signal is carried separately. It's not that NTSC was a crappy standard, it's that we haven't moved forward fast enough; the damn thing is over 40 years old! I recently got a TV with an S-Video input and that is so much clearer looking than composite looks on the thing from the same system, so things did move forward (and of course component is to die for).
You know, you're kinda wrong about Nintendo not giving a shit about the GBA NES releases. If they didn't then why did they take the time in some games like LoZ to redesign the graphics so that all the colors are solid and not flickering where is relies on interlacing?
Now you're just making up excuses. They don't flicker because...
1) it's easier to program a video emulation driver that doesn't emulate the PPU to the point of artifacts such as that, &...
2) Nintendo is ALOT bigger, which means more flickering = more seizure lawsuits. That's why you get the warning message whenever you power on any modern Nintendo console. They've even gone through the trouble of modifying virtual consoler ROMS to reduce the amount of flickering. That's why you don't get the classic red, green, blue death animation in Zelda II.
1) it's easier to program a video emulation driver that doesn't emulate the PPU to the point of artifacts such as that, &...
2) Nintendo is ALOT bigger, which means more flickering = more seizure lawsuits. That's why you get the warning message whenever you power on any modern Nintendo console. They've even gone through the trouble of modifying virtual consoler ROMS to reduce the amount of flickering. That's why you don't get the classic red, green, blue death animation in Zelda II.
NOT THAT.
I mean interpolation. Flicker as in how something like pocketnes squeezes the image into the GBA screen and the lines fight over which is being displayed by flickering from one to another, and since GBA has frame blurring it makes it into a blur of the two fighting lines.
But in Zelda, the graphics were editted so that it wouldn't produce more colors from the frame interpolation.
I mean interpolation. Flicker as in how something like pocketnes squeezes the image into the GBA screen and the lines fight over which is being displayed by flickering from one to another, and since GBA has frame blurring it makes it into a blur of the two fighting lines.
But in Zelda, the graphics were editted so that it wouldn't produce more colors from the frame interpolation.
blargg wrote:
Then why don't the NES games on Wii have NTSC artifacts as a NES does? Answer: they didn't want them to be exactly the same as the NES.
The true answers is : They didn't know how to do it being not as good as Blargg.
Quote:
Anyways, I would take the low color bandwidth of NTSC over the flickeryness of a 50Hz set anyway.
As if we european had choose...
Funily, most recent games with interlacing doesn't look all that bad on a old interlaced TV however pre-rendered graphics looks horrible while scrolling verically.
Bregalad wrote:
blargg wrote:
Anyways, I would take the low color bandwidth of NTSC over the flickeryness of a 50Hz set anyway.
As if we european had choose...
You do have a choice. As I understand it, a lot of CRT TV sets for 50 Hz markets can do 100 Hz by storing the fields in a frame buffer. LCDs don't flicker when refreshed, and DLPs effectively run at a few kilohertz. The Wii Remote's infrared-sensing design compensates for any problem that these sets have with light guns.
At least my (100% analog) TV only supports 50Hz (at least I can just tell the PAL NES was designed to run with it as they are about the same age).
NTSC is great for racing games, or anything that requires a decent framerate. Now I haven't seen a real PAL CRT in about 5 years (when I was about 12), but I've torrented a decent amount of BBC EDTV programming to know what the flicker of 50Hz looks like. It's only noticeable when there's serious movement. I'd be more than happy to sacrifice ten fields for the crispness of PAL for something not as complex as Grand Trismo or something...