我是中国人

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我是中国人
by on (#13624)
我是中国人,爱好NES游戏开发, 第一次来这个论坛, 做了几个小的DEMO.

by on (#13628)
'We've had some fun, but now it's time to say goodbye'

- unknown
Re: 我是中国人
by on (#13629)
zgh4000 wrote:
我是中国人,爱好NES游戏开发 第一次来这个论坛 做了几个小的DEMO


Babelfish translator wrote:
I am a Chinese, liked the NES game developing first time comes this forum to make several small DEMO


We would appreciate if you wrote your messages in English, as most of us can't understand Chinese.

If you need assistance in programming demos, first check the wiki and then the main NESdev site. If there's something in particular you need help with, then please post it here.

<babelfish(机器翻译)>
我们会赞赏如果您作为大多数写您的消息在英语, 我们无法了解中文。

如果您需要协助在编程的演示, 首先检查wiki和然后NESdev站点。如果有某事特别是您需要帮助与, 然后取乐岗位它这里。
</babelfish(机器翻译)>

by on (#13637)
WedNESday wrote:
'We've had some fun, but now it's time to say goodbye'- unknown


"...It's been real fun, but now i must say goodbye."
-- NOFX, Whoops, I OD'd

by on (#13638)
'It was great fun but it was just one of those things'

- Cole Porter
Re: 我是中国人
by on (#13639)
zgh4000 wrote:
我是中国人,爱好NES游戏开发, 第一次来这个论坛, 做了几个小的DEMO.

Chinese:
大家在这里只用英语或者日语(能写日语的地方在“FCDev”里边)。但是在这里可能有一些想学汉语的学生想跟中国游戏开发者聊天。麻烦你告诉我们,在哪里能用汉语聊天?(ie. 告诉我们一个好的汉语emulation论坛网址 - 你喜欢哪个论坛?) 谢谢

English:
Everyone here uses just English or Japanese (the place wherein you can write Japanese is "FCDev"). But there are probably a few students here who'd like to study Chinese and would like to talk with Chinese game (or emulation) developers. Please tell us, where can we speak Chinese? (ie. tell us the address of a good Chinese-language emulation forum -- Which forum do you like?) Thanks.

(I figure if there's any further Chinese here, it's probably best to make it quick and use it to jump out to a Chinese-language forum for further discussion. Personally, I'd like to find some good Chinese development forums as an interesting place to improve my Chinese.)
Re: 我是中国人
by on (#13641)
augnober wrote:
...where can we speak Chinese?


Hmph well, China for a start...

by on (#13643)
WedNESday :D

Seriously though, a while back I had considered making a Chinese language forum. Maybe it'll get some use, so I went ahead and opened one up now.
http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=18
Re: 我是中国人
by on (#13644)
WedNESday wrote:
augnober wrote:
...where can we speak Chinese?


Hmph well, China for a start...

Ah. I'm there/here right now actually. My phrasing was pretty lame because I wrote it in Chinese and then gave a reasonably faithful English translation from it. There's chance to speak Chinese in the real world of course, but for me, that's generally not tech/development/hobby stuff.

Memblers:
Cool! 谢谢你 ;) I wonder who will show up.

by on (#13645)
Memblers wrote:
I went ahead and opened one up now.

Nothing against the people who know chinese, but I don't really know what to think about this...

I mean, I can understand the japanese forum, since the NES originaly came from Japan, there are many japanese-only stuff related to the NES, and etc. But if if China gets it's own forum, I think so should other languages. For one, there seem to be a lot of spanish speakers around here. I speak portuguese, and I know there are at least other 2 or 3 brazillian people around (I don't know if that qualifies for a new forum though).

I don't know the actual numbers of users from each country, but if there are many people using the same language, I think that justifies a new forum. Since other 2 different languages already have one, that is.

Or does China get a forum because of the crazy ammount of pirate NES-related stuff they release?

by on (#13647)
I agree and I disagree. If we have a Chinese and a Japanese board then there should be boards for the Spanish speakers. However, on the other hand it might be a good idea to make everything english that way we can all read and post in the same language. If useful information starts to be posted in Spanish then non spanish speakers are going to be missing out.

What I am saying is, english is a universal language that we all understand. Let's keep it that way. We all have computers that speak a universal language ((x86/C/C++) and look at the trouble that causes!). Imagine if every country in the world had a different computer format... *Shudders*

by on (#13648)
The Chinese and Japanese language look so different from other languages, that I think it's fine to have some forums for those two major ones specifically. I mean, most of us can look at a different language that don't use special characters, and at least have an idea of what is being talked about. When it comes to Chinese and Japanese though, with no study involved... forget about it.

I'm kind of torn as well, but whatever works :)

by on (#13649)
Roth wrote:
The Chinese and Japanese language look so different from other languages, that I think it's fine to have some forums for those two major ones specifically. I mean, most of us can look at a different language that don't use special characters, and at least have an idea of what is being talked about.

That's no reason. Forums in different languages exist so that people that don't know/are not confortable with english can talk freely. That means that the important thing here is how well they understand english, not how much we understand them. And most foreigners understand enough english to find this place and at least read the posts, anyway.

In fact, by creating forums for such different laguages you are doing what WedNESday said, dividing information in a way that not everyone can access it. With "similar" languages, everyone could get the idea of what's beeing talked about, as you said.

I'm not against creating forums for any language (I studied japanese for a couple of years myself), but it is not right to create only for some, just because they use cool-looking asian characters or whatever reason, while there is a demand for other languages as well.

I mean, people posted in spanish here before, but that did not result in the creation of a new forum, as this chinese post did.

by on (#13650)
Nooo ! Not keeping everything in english would be a catastrophe. I had pretty much effort to do so be able to speak english, and this is a universal language that almost everyone in the world knows the basics, and a lot of non-native english speakers learns advanced english. I think it is a good universal language, because basics are easy to learn, and when it comes to more complicated stuff it become quickly more confusing, but you can still talk with real english speakers and that will help you out a lot.
English is an unniversal language, and this may not be changed, because I put pretty good effort to learn english. I'd not like to have a french message board for my own and have noone to speak with.
By the way, I don't even know if I'd be able to speak about NESdev in french. I mean english is a perfect language for everything that have to do with computers, programming, electronics, math, etc... and for me french is for everything else. I have a lot of trouble speaking about computer-related stuff in french, since a lot of standard terms are in english and stupid people want to translate untranslatable stuff in french, making crap.
As well italian is the perfect language for music, japanese is the perfect language for RPGs, etc, etc... I think this cannot be changed.

by on (#13651)
You make some good points against opening up a Chinese forum and/or opening up forums for different languages. Someone mentioned that Chinese and Japanese are cooler. Personally I think that's a significant distinguishment worthy of consideration. 加油!:)

(well, I'm both biased and not particularly concerned either way - so I'll leave this to you guys to decide. In seriousness though, Chinese usage online, and the number of Chinese speakers involved in development is going up in a big way, and there seems to be an increasing interest in learning the language)

by on (#13652)
Bregalad wrote:
Nooo ! Not keeping everything in english would be a catastrophe.

It's already not fully in english, with the japanese and chinese forums. I'm just seeing what is fair and what is not. I would probably not make use of any of the other language forums, but I'm sure many would like. There are many registered user and guests that do not post, maybe because they're not confident about their english.

Quote:
I don't even know if I'd be able to speak about NESdev in french. I mean english is a perfect language for everything that have to do with computers, programming, electronics, math, etc... and for me french is for everything else. I have a lot of trouble speaking about computer-related stuff in french, since a lot of standard terms are in english and stupid people want to translate untranslatable stuff in french, making crap.

I feel the same way about english and portuguese. Often when I'm sketching programming stuff people complain that I do it in english, 'cause I always do. Also, people I work with usually complain that I name variables, functions, etc. in english. I have a really hard time reading computer material in portuguese, it just doesn't make sense. Maybe because I learned it all in english, and when I see what people turned the expressions into it just looks stupid. I always laugh at teachers in college pronouncing words like "procedure" using the rules of portuguese. Plus, this kind of material is usually badly translated, you will always find many errors in translated computer books.

by on (#13653)
If I do a programm with all variables and labels in french, you're doing it in portugueese, and someone else do it in english, not only it will have bad and confusing labels, but exanging programms will be confusing to impossible, because you won't understand each other doccumentation (exept the english one).
If everyone does everything in english, it makes the life of everyone easier. I like comment and label everythig in english, and this makes less trouble than doing it in french where half of the stuff would still have to be kept in english for "impossible-to-translate" purposes, so better is to keep 100% english.
I had some trouble for example I spell "scrool" instead of "scroll" everywhere, but with a bit of effort this can be fixed.
English
by on (#13656)
I speak English so I'm biased. However it is good to have a "Universal language" as there are so few NESDev fanatics that if we start splitting up by language we will individually miss a lot. The good thing about English is that if you stick to a NES technical problems you can be understood pretty easily even with grammar, spelling and syntax that are far from perfect. Still I can understand someone wanting to use their own language. By the way, are all Chinese written languages the same or do we need Cantonese, Mandarin and Peking Chinese forums?
Re: English
by on (#13657)
Lloyd Gordon wrote:
By the way, are all Chinese written languages the same or do we need Cantonese, Mandarin and Peking Chinese forums?


Yes.

Edit: Yes, as in, they are the same.

by on (#13658)
Bregalad wrote:
I had some trouble for example I spell "scrool" instead of "scroll" everywhere, but with a bit of effort this can be fixed.


You know, that's funny you mention that, because that's one of the things I noticed about your posts when I first came here. But yeah, I think that multiple language forums would cause catastrophe, because I think it'd just turn into a discussing-the-language-in-english forum. I've noticed in the FCdev forum, people that post there (including myself) like to talk about the Japanese language itself rather than FCdev stuff. I think it'd just be a mess. And there are few people interested in NESdev that speak french or portuguese, like Bregalad was saying. I think it'd just result in a bunch of people starting new threads asking how to say something, and it'd just be a waste of space. I also think it'd be spammed alot.

by on (#13659)
That's why there is a "General Stuff" forum, there you may discuss whatever.

I have a suggestion: why not make a single "International" (non-English allowed) forum where people may post in whichever language they choose? Here on-topic responders should reply in the OP's language. Perhaps the forum subtitle should say French/Spanish/Portuguese/Chinese/Japanese welcome in their respective languages. This way should another language come along, it can just be added to the subtitle, and it's clear the language is understood by someone.
Re: English
by on (#13678)
WedNESday wrote:
Lloyd Gordon wrote:
By the way, are all Chinese written languages the same or do we need Cantonese, Mandarin and Peking Chinese forums?


Yes.

Edit: Yes, as in, they are the same.

Well.. This could use some clarification because both 'yes' or 'no' would be misleading.

In writing, there are Simplified Chinese characters and Traditional Chinese characters. In the 1950's or so, mainland China took the existing Chinese characters and developed simplified characters. Elsewhere, simplified characters weren't adopted, and so they're still using traditional.

Many Chinese in China can read conversational text written in traditional Chinese (in part because of imported karaoke and movies which are sometimes only subtitled with traditional characters), but aren't entirely fluent with it and have never written it. They never formally studied it, they can't type it, and they certainly can't write it. As for people who learned traditional characters.. I think it's a bit harder for them. In my experience, they can read the general grammatical structure but stumble on a couple words per sentence, which makes it a pretty big hassle for them. Those who speak Mandarin can become decent at typing simplified characters on a computer within a month or two (once they learn how pronunciation is romanized they can type the pronunciation they're familiar with and then see a limited set of choices that they can guess from), but very few of them have done it.

Worse yet, you can't just change your browser settings to switch between viewing the two. There's no one-to-one mapping between them. Converting between the two is a hard problem comparable to translation. In short, at best a forum that doesn't use their native characters is a little painful to read and they understand that if they ever posted, they'd be using their own native characters which others may not be able to read.

As for speech and how it relates to writing.. I'm not sure. People use traditional characters to write Cantonese, whereas with Mandarin it depends where they grew up. I've been told that Cantonese writing has some differences due to different vocabulary and such. I don't know how major the difference is. Amongst people who write traditional characters, I think Mandarin and Cantonese people probably prefer to use their own forums despite the shared characters, and only just occasionally venture into the other languages' site if they've got a reason. I could be wrong though.

Anyway.. If what you're looking for is a single standard, the consensus is that the movement is toward Mandarin + Simplified Chinese. 1billion+ people is a pretty big headstart. For Chinese, I'd just make a Simplified Chinese forum (or, 'China', as it is now) and leave it at that.

by on (#13687)
If you need to change something, "international" would be better, so if people REALLY don't know english they may post here and possibly get an answer from someone that knows both english and another language.
For example, Tokumaru would answer to all posts in portugeese, I'd do posts in French, etc...

But I think this isn't the goal. The FCDev forum was here because japaneese is where the NES and most NES games have been invented. English has the particularity that everyone speaks it a little, and that is the universal language for computer-related stuff. All other languages doesn't have the particularity that japaneese and english has.

by on (#13698)
tokumaru wrote:
I don't know the actual numbers of users from each country, but if there are many people using the same language, I think that justifies a new forum. Since other 2 different languages already have one, that is.

Here's how to find out (just for the main page though, so it's potential forum-users):
http://www.webstats4u.com/s?tab=1&link=3&id=404475&cou=all

I think it'd be great to have a lot of different language forums. It's not to split people up, but to get new people to come around who wouldn't post otherwise.

I would assume there's people like myself, who have little to no trouble reading posts in another language (using translation software or otherwise) but are uncomfortable writing in other languages. I think it's OK to reply to any threads in english, as long as you understand the discussion and are willing to follow-up. A lot of answers will be in 6502 assembly anyways, that's the common language around here.

One big reason I did never opened a lot of other language sections is kinda cosmetic.. it'd make the main forum index larger (it's now 3 page-down keys on my screen, to see if there's new posts). And the Japanese-language area went unused for years at a time, everyone was just posting in english. It gets more responses.

If there is to be another forum made for more languages, what would be next? I'd guess Spanish. I like the international forum idea though.

by on (#13702)
http://zgh3000.ik8.com/fc/demo1.zip 仙剑奇侠传
http://zgh3000.ik8.com/fc/demo2.zip 俄罗斯方块

by on (#13703)
Demo 1 sort of works, though some of the graphics are missing.
Demo 2 crashes immediately, jumping off into $6000 (which contains absolutely nothing on an NROM board).

Also, if you want to post in this particular forum, you'll need to use English so the rest of us can understand. Chinese posts are fine over in "NESdev China".
Re: 我是中国人
by on (#13704)
augnober wrote:
zgh4000 wrote:
我是中国人,爱好NES游戏开发, 第一次来这个论坛, 做了几个小的DEMO.

Chinese:
大家在这里只用英语或者日语(能写日语的地方在“FCDev”里边)。但是在这里可能有一些想学汉语的学生想跟中国游戏开发者聊天。麻烦你告诉我们,在哪里能用汉语聊天?(ie. 告诉我们一个好的汉语emulation论坛网址 - 你喜欢哪个论坛?) 谢谢

English:
Everyone here uses just English or Japanese (the place wherein you can write Japanese is "FCDev"). But there are probably a few students here who'd like to study Chinese and would like to talk with Chinese game (or emulation) developers. Please tell us, where can we speak Chinese? (ie. tell us the address of a good Chinese-language emulation forum -- Which forum do you like?) Thanks.

(I figure if there's any further Chinese here, it's probably best to make it quick and use it to jump out to a Chinese-language forum for further discussion. Personally, I'd like to find some good Chinese development forums as an interesting place to improve my Chinese.)

我不得不遗憾的告诉你,现在中国的FC游戏开发者很少,至少我没见到几个,现在人们一般开发GBA,NDS等等.
大部分FC爱好者喜欢汉化游戏.就是把外国的游戏翻译成中文游戏.
我是一个业余的FC游戏开发爱好者,还有,你的汉语说的很不错啊.

by on (#13705)
Quietust wrote:
Demo 1 sort of works, though some of the graphics are missing.
Demo 2 crashes immediately, jumping off into $6000 (which contains absolutely nothing on an NROM board).

Also, if you want to post in this particular forum, you'll need to use English so the rest of us can understand. Chinese posts are fine over in "NESdev China".

I understand that and I would say in English here. But my English is poor.

by on (#13724)
Memblers wrote:
I like the international forum idea though.

That surelly is the way to let everyone post without cosmetically affecting the page. I like it too. This way you don't have to worry about what languages deserve a forum and things like that. People could just start a topic in whatever language they want. That's cool.

zgh4000 wrote:
I understand that and I would say in English here. But my English is poor.

Don't worry about that. We're discussing programming here, not languages. It's just that you have a better chance of passing along the message if you use english, it does not have to be perfect. =)

Plus, you get to practice a little english here, and you'll get better and better at it.

by on (#13729)
I agree with tokumaru: Don't worry about your English not being understood. Most of us grew up with Engrish (imperfect English as a foreign language) in cheaply translated NES games.

by on (#13736)
Now that there's a Chinese area, perhaps we can try to help make some of the information here more accessible to the new Chinese users. So the first thing I wanted to do was skim through the wiki and post a bit of the essential information in Chinese.

That's when I got reminded that I can't access http://nesdevwiki.ath.cx/. I should also mention that I can't access Quietust's Nintendulator site (which shares the domain ath.cx). It has been this way as long as I can remember, so it's probably a widespread issue (ie. ath.cx is inaccessible for many, if not all, users in China). Perhaps someone can find a different host for it, or a temporary mirror.

Edit: I've noticed now that http://nesdev.com/ has a lot of nice links and actual documents online. No faq or wiki there though. Upon trying to find out what ath.cx is, it seems it's a dynamic dns service.. which may not be good anyway because it tends to be one of the least accessible kinds of things (in terms of workplaces, schools, etc.).

by on (#13811)
I can speak English, Chinese, and a little Japanese :lol:
I'm living in China, will graduate this year, and will be a professional online-game programmer soon. To develop emulators is my great interest, I have developed a NES (it's called FC in China) emulator and a GB/GBC emulator(both without sound :( ).
In my opinion, most of those programmers who speak English as their mother tongue are great. :idea: The best computer books are written in English. Since I like programming, I read a lot of English books in college == studying English hard. :D By the way, love to see American movies. :wink:

This is my website about my emulator project :
http://ershu.3q5.com
It's a Chinese version. Later I will put an English version. Recently, I'm stduying The Scientist and Engineer's Guide to Digital Signal Processing in my spare time for adding sound support to my emulators. Hope to make some friends here.

by on (#13812)
I'm really surprised how popular the NESdev China board is frequented, and how many chineese people are using it right after it was founded. I know that a lot of reverse-engineering has been done in China and Taiwan, but I didn't know they still care about the NES/Famicom today. Looks like it had been a good idea to open the board.
For some reason everything that have to do with reverse-engineering, emulation, piracy, is all about China and/or Taiwan. I'm unsure why, since I know nothing about those countries. I've heard that they are just full of people working incredibly hard since the age of 8 for an incredibly low salary, wich is kind of sad. Almost all electronics are made in the industry in those countries, just because it is cheaper. Again, I do fell like knowing nothing about China, so exange more knowlege on the net can only be good.

by on (#13814)
upstair :?

1. Even today still have some manufacturers localizing NES games for commercial in China.

2. Most of Chinese people's salary is much lower than Americian's. But our price is much lower too. Can you buy half a kilogramme of beef with less than 1$ in America ??? In China, you can. Low salary, low price. Your imagination about China was totally misunderstood. If you come to China, you will know how beautiful it is.

3. Taiwan is not a country!! It's a part of China. OK ?!!

by on (#13817)
Try not to worry too much about the words people use. Many of us also call all tissue paper "Kleenex" even if it's a different brand. Strange things happen in language sometimes. It's human nature. If we try to force ourselves to use different words, it feels unnatural and we laugh. Many of us have already been lectured about Taiwan several times by visiting Chinese students, even though we understand it very well in a nuanced way. People who go into politics begin using their government's recommended terminology quickly, but other people just want to be natural and have friendly conversations.

by on (#13818)
ershu wrote:
1. Even today still have some manufacturers localizing NES games for commercial in China.

That's quite surprising, but quite good. Old games aren't worse than new ones.

Quote:
Most of Chinese people's salary is much lower than Americian's. But our price is much lower too. Can you buy half a kilogramme of beef with less than 1$ in America ??? In China, you can. Low salary, low price. Your imagination about China was totally misunderstood. If you come to China, you will know how beautiful it is.

Maybe. But I'm not american, but european (I think it is similar to you, but not for us). I've no doubt China is an interesting country, but the economic situation isn't fair for both yours and ours :
If anyone want to try its chance and create a new small entreprise here, it will have to put incredibly high prices because there is no other way, and it will run down and crash unless your entreprise is doing something very particular or of a very high quality, because products of big international companies that do all the building in chineese industry will be cheaper. So the only way to get a good job here is to go to high scool or university to work in reshearch and developpement, and work in big entreprises. But by doing so, you do nothing but enlarge the difference between the big entreprises and small ones, make technology progress, exploit more the chineese constructors and polluting more the planet. This is an horrible vicious circle, and should absolutely be stopped.

You can also work in wood industry or something that have less changes over years, but for some reason I'm myself interested in computers and electronics, and unfortunately this kind of industry has big problems.

by on (#13826)
ershu wrote:
3. Taiwan is not a country!! It's a part of China. OK ?!!


<threadjack>
Some (but not all) people in Taiwan would disagree with you on that point.
</threadjack>
Puerto Taiwan?
by on (#13827)
And some people in Puerto Rico want the territory to become a separate country too.

by on (#13830)
I personally didn't know China played much NES, or had one for that matter. I thought that there wouldn't be enough space for the kanji in the pattern tables. Are there not many RPGs for the FC in China? I can't imagine they have many. Maybe I'm just assuming too much, I don't really know anything about chinese. I'm learning japanese though, and I've learned a little about chinese through learning about japanese.

by on (#13839)
Celius wrote:
I personally didn't know China played much NES, or had one for that matter. I thought that there wouldn't be enough space for the kanji in the pattern tables.

When you have a mapper that's essentially an expanded TQROM, pattern table space isn't an issue. Take a typical NES game with 256 KiB PRG ROM and 128 KiB CHR ROM. Add an 8 KiB CHR RAM and double the PRG size. Then whenever a character speaks, the engine can copy kanji glyphs from PRG ROM into CHR RAM.

by on (#13892)
Most NES games does have neraly no text, so playing them in english or japanese is okay.
Only 1% of NES games have enough text to be mattered, including the very best ones (Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest), but that still is only 1% of NES games.

PS : I really don't know how you guy could be so interesed about japanese and chinese languages. Learn an language that only use latin letters is really hard enough, I wouldn't assume to learn one wich has totally different and unreconisable letters.